tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post6407152483778366141..comments2023-12-29T00:19:54.130-08:00Comments on Liberated: Thank youLiberated Onehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12033054482768383889noreply@blogger.comBlogger99125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-69876461681847070702012-07-09T16:10:41.994-07:002012-07-09T16:10:41.994-07:00Prove it.Prove it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-348424324587907042012-01-05T19:33:50.578-08:002012-01-05T19:33:50.578-08:00THANK you for a powerful testimony - AND for a web...THANK you for a powerful testimony - AND for a web site that enables me to share it on Facebook, in email and any way I can!Paul Huberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08170930996453295283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-72248305168073344912011-12-30T00:47:57.561-08:002011-12-30T00:47:57.561-08:00Cogent, wonderfully measured, and tireless, Greenf...Cogent, wonderfully measured, and tireless, Greenforest. Kudos. Kudos.Traehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09997009621742454158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-15101716177940509632011-12-29T07:19:05.507-08:002011-12-29T07:19:05.507-08:00Between the posts of Greenforest, RonaldB, stephen...Between the posts of Greenforest, RonaldB, stephen, Traeh and me with regard to this "skoutl" character -- in addition to his behavior on these comments threads of this blog -- it should be excruciatingly clear to anyone of elementary intelligence that, <br /><br />a) concerning the substance of the claims "skoutl" makes -- every last one of them -- he hasn't a leg to stand on; and<br /><br />b) concerning his standing as a human being endowed with reason which would serve to distinguish him from the mute animal kingdom (other than unintelligible and incoherent grunts and groans), he is found wanting.<br /><br />We should, at least, thank Allah that he falls far short of being clever enough to be s Sophist -- which would only serve to entangle us in more obfuscations and tap-dancing to waste our time and infuriate us, Elmer-Fudd-vs.-a-wily-and-grinning-Bugs-Bunny-wise.Hesperadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10394374828751466705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-85505596918650170782011-12-29T02:02:31.596-08:002011-12-29T02:02:31.596-08:00reply to skouti,
C.) skouti wrote to RonaldB, &qu...reply to skouti,<br /><br />C.) skouti wrote to RonaldB, "...please read liberateds first post again and you will see spencers fingerprint all over it..........all the Islam hating stuff you would expect to read on jihad watch."<br /><br />I'm familiar with both JW and Faithfreedom. Liberated's writing is consistent with someone who has been influenced by the writings of Ali Sina--which is in fact consistent with Liberated's story. Liberated also acknowledges an influence from Spencer's (and others') writings. To suggest that "Spencer's fingerprints are all over it" is to imply a kind of paranoid view, whereby Spencer is some kind of crafty evil individual who has nothing better to do than to make up stories about apostates--as if he'd need to do so (see above). <br /><br />D). skouti wrote: "As for liberated being in danger of death, why doesn't he just move to another country?"<br /><br />First, Liberated is a "she." Skouti's error indicates that skouti has not read Liberated's story carefully in the first place. This again raises questions about whether skouti is in any position to be commenting intelligently on Liberated's case, since he does not seem to have a grasp of the story which he purports to challenge.<br /><br />E). skouti: "Also how is it that all of Spencers apostates are such haters?"<br /><br />We can dismiss this statement on at least three grounds. 1. It has not been established that the apostates Spencer cites are "haters." 2. Even if they were "haters," skouti offers no substantive reasons as to why they would be in the wrong for "hating" the elements of Islam which they criticize. 3. Skouti is committing a massive equivocation fallacy with the word "hate," whereby he believes that all criticism of Islam is hate, whereas he surely knows that the normal and relevant usage of the word hate does not refer to mere criticism of religious or political ideologies and leaders.<br /><br />F). skouti wrote: "Painful indeed to be nailed by two of spencers erstwhile sidekicks, ronald and greenforest"<br /><br />Whether or not RonaldB and Greenforest are "sidekicks" of Spencer is irrelevant. Skouti appears to be making a diversion away from having to address the substantive points made by RonaldB and Greenforest. In any case, it is not established that they are sidekicks of Spencer--a claim which again seems to imply a kind of conspiratorial control to Spencer whereby he can send his "people" to defend his "creation." (Apparently we are not "creations" of Spencer, only "sidekicks" employed in the defense of the "creations." Perhaps skouti assumes this because he guesses plausibly that Spencer wouldn't have time to create all these personages. Yet I find it implausible that skouti really believes that Spencer would have time to "create" an apostate writer). We aren't Spencer's "sidekicks," unless you consider anyone who happens to read Jihadwatch to be one of his sidekicks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-17791444203469585202011-12-29T01:44:03.489-08:002011-12-29T01:44:03.489-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-81201920556395716022011-12-29T01:40:23.706-08:002011-12-29T01:40:23.706-08:00reply to skouti,
B.) You also claim that Liberate...reply to skouti,<br /><br />B.) You also claim that Liberated is not really an apostate but is some kind of fabrication, even suggesting Liberated is actually Robert Spencer. In support of this conjecture, you cite as "evidence" that "This [Liberated] is someone who decided to leave a religion and the first thing s/he does ? Starts a blog......hello....then conveniently blogs some more via a loon like spencer".<br /><br />First, according to Liberated's account on this blog, and part of which is available on FaithFreedom, starting a blog was not in fact the first thing she did upon leaving the religion. Thus your assumption here is false, indicating that at minimum you have not actually familiarized yourself with her account. According to her account, she communicated with others (e.g., Ali Sina) before ever discussing the idea of a blog. This is easily verified by checking the Faithfreedom site. Furthermore, she contacted a priest (who lived near her) for assistance prior to contacting Spencer. Finally, when she did contact Spencer this was not unreasonable, because she was familiar with Spencer's work as an Islam critic who supports freedom of conscience and freedom of expression, and who actively supports apostates of Islam and Islam critics, and who would be able to provide some assistance such as arranging for this blog to be set up and posting Liberated's articles, and so by sending her articles to him she had a relatively safe outlet through which she could express her views on Islam. Spencer does in fact have a history of publishing on his website some articles/writings by apostates.<br /><br />I find this story to be plausible. In contrast, your conjecture seems to require some sort of implausible conspiracy or collusion between Spencer and Ali Sina in "fabricating" Liberated. That is, your conjecture requires that both Spencer and Ali Sina are lying about Liberated. Why would they need to do that? Clearly, they don't. Their sites report on an almost daily basis from mainstream news sources about the dangers to non-Muslims such as public apostates and Islam critics. The stories of numerous ex-Muslims, including famous ones, are already documented at both websites (JW and FaithFreedom). And as RonaldB pointed out above, Spencer is a well-known best-selling author who would have much to lose if he were found to have concocted "Liberated." You know there would be all kinds of people ready to pounce on him in the media if he had done so. If Spencer has nothing to gain financially and reputation-wise, and a lot to lose, by concocting an ex-Muslim, why would he do so? That's not plausible. The evidence before us to this point indicates that it is more likely that Liberated really is an apostate as she said she is. There are "1.5 billion Muslims", so it should not be surprising that we find some who want to leave the religion and that in the course of doing so they would be in contact with sympathetic people who are involved with this issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-63560908633017291342011-12-29T01:39:24.686-08:002011-12-29T01:39:24.686-08:00skouti,
I first want to note that you have not ye...skouti,<br /><br />I first want to note that you have not yet refuted any of Liberated's major substantive allegations against Islam and Muhammad. For example, she described Muhammad as "sadistic, misogynistic, pedophile, anti-semite, a bandit." Now, Islam apologists do have a set of apologetics that they use to defend against these allegations. I simply note that you have not replied in substance to any of Liberated's quite serious allegations against Islam and Muhammad. Why not?<br /><br />Secondly, to address some of your claims and assumptions in this thread:<br /><br />A). On the one hand, you deny that public apostates of Islam are in danger. You cite no evidence to support your claim that they are safe to criticize Islam and Muhammad publicly in Islamic societies and communities. (Your answer to my question 2, above, was a categorical "no"). On the other hand, you contradict this assumption quite dramatically when you condone the "beating up" of apostates who criticize Islam or Muhammad--a response which shows that you assume that apostates are at least at significant risk of harm. A reminder of what you said: "Is it any wonder such folks get beaten up when they decide to leave a religion, then start bad mouthing it"<br /><br />skouti, in order to clarify your position on the safety of public apostates, I'm going to ask you to decide whether they are at risk of getting beaten up, or whether they are subject to no such risk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-85599756101227948872011-12-28T21:05:14.520-08:002011-12-28T21:05:14.520-08:00How pathetic are the commentators inviting liberat...How pathetic are the commentators inviting liberated one to their religions. I would accept if an atheist or agnostic invites her to the logic and reasoning if they claim religions lack logic and reason. But calling to other religions...means ran away from the police caught by the villagers. How pathetic.<br /><br />You will have to pray in all religions<br />you will have to obey God in all religions<br />You will have to maintain your righteousness<br />You will have to pay for your sins<br /><br />So what's the point in leaving Islam and embracing another??????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-63762107466842407252011-12-28T00:50:54.527-08:002011-12-28T00:50:54.527-08:00Hi Shakila
You are a very brave individual who in...Hi Shakila<br /><br />You are a very brave individual who inspires us all. Please keep safe and continue being part of the beautiful species of humanity. Keep safe and keep doing this beautiful work. The world need to know more about what is happening with the so called the "Religion of Peace". This way you will help many people who are still or might get trapped. God bless you!Kingdomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08724244507350488362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-85827620791802913422011-12-27T20:26:50.700-08:002011-12-27T20:26:50.700-08:00Hesperado, excellent argument you presented agains...Hesperado, excellent argument you presented against skouti, and done without ad hominem. His responses are mostly ad hominem and rhetoric rather than specific charges.Traehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09997009621742454158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-88527363055168805292011-12-27T16:40:37.725-08:002011-12-27T16:40:37.725-08:00In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith col...<b>In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection, Muhammad said,</b><br /><br /><a href="http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/084-sbt.php#009.084.057" rel="nofollow"><b>"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."</b></a> <br /><br />Various other canonical hadiths attest that Muhammad called for death to those who leave Islam. That's why even today all the schools of Islamic law prescribe death for apostasy from Islam.Traehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09997009621742454158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-46051013962026640642011-12-27T16:06:15.392-08:002011-12-27T16:06:15.392-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Traehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09997009621742454158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-21278571117191812862011-12-27T13:11:29.446-08:002011-12-27T13:11:29.446-08:00Hey skouti
When are you going to address the quest...Hey skouti<br />When are you going to address the questions I asked you? Is because you can't? I'll take that for a yes then. Your logic is like muhamhead's night journey. The journey he claimed he made to a mosque that wasn't even built for another 500 years after his descent into Hell, where he has been ever since.stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02957984860205953305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-20784856566794843462011-12-27T12:22:45.540-08:002011-12-27T12:22:45.540-08:00Hesperado, unlike you, I don't feel the need t...Hesperado, unlike you, I don't feel the need to post stuff twice. Once from you is quite enough......thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-36006226625165394232011-12-27T12:11:51.367-08:002011-12-27T12:11:51.367-08:00If skoutl desires to persuade those who differ fro...If skoutl desires to persuade those who differ from him of the cogency of his position, he sure is behaving strangely. The content and manner of everything he writes has the powerful effect of undermining the cogency of his position. <br /><br />It's almost as if he wants to be ineffective. If so, that, at least, would be the sole thing at which he succeeds.Hesperadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10394374828751466705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-48799558899345943652011-12-27T11:20:32.857-08:002011-12-27T11:20:32.857-08:00Greenforest:
Here are my answers:
2. No
3. If li...Greenforest:<br /><br />Here are my answers:<br /><br />2. No<br />3. If liberated is a real person, surely s/he should speak to his/her parents. They won't kill liberated will they. Would not bother with hirsi Ali as she has been outed as a liar. Apprently she lied to gain immigration status etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-70147376980856192052011-12-27T11:07:01.761-08:002011-12-27T11:07:01.761-08:00skouti,
I think you already know the gist of my a...skouti,<br /><br />I think you already know the gist of my answers (to questions posed at December 27, 2011 5:52 AM), but here they are:<br /><br />1. Yes, yes.<br />2. Yes.<br />3. Ayaan Hirsi Ali (individual); Former Muslims United (organization).<br /><br />See? Easy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-23134178126054582332011-12-27T11:05:08.328-08:002011-12-27T11:05:08.328-08:00Hesperado, you are one sad puppy. Did you read the...Hesperado, you are one sad puppy. Did you read the links i provided that expose Spencer for what he really is. Here they are for your benefit:<br /><br />Www.spencerwatch.com and<br />Www.loonwatch.com<br /><br />Please add them to your own blogAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-58889866746006054972011-12-27T10:52:06.919-08:002011-12-27T10:52:06.919-08:00I was worried that my two long posts might have pr...I was worried that my two long posts might have provided distraction cover for skoutl to continue his obfuscations and evasions -- but I see that he managed to maintain them valiantly, anyway.<br /><br />While I consider skoutl a waste of time insofar as he is not a rational human being, my posts to him were felicitous in motivating me to articulate some useful things which, with some minor modifications here and there, I have now put on my blog, <a href="http://hesperado.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">The Hesperado</a>.Hesperadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10394374828751466705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-21074431209846479782011-12-27T10:42:57.305-08:002011-12-27T10:42:57.305-08:00Greenforest,
Let's see your answers to your o...Greenforest,<br /><br />Let's see your answers to your own Qs, if they are easy to answer. <br /><br />Happy holidays to you and please dont be a hater of Islam or anything else. There are enough problems in the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-28434170131571377052011-12-27T10:13:48.442-08:002011-12-27T10:13:48.442-08:00skouti,
It looks like you're not going to rec...skouti,<br /><br />It looks like you're not going to reconsider answering my questions 2 and 3. That's your choice, even though they seemed to me to be very easy questions to answer. Anyways, I think you provided everything we needed to know about you when you said the following about Liberated:<br /><br />"[...] Is it any wonder such folks get beaten up when they decide to leave a religion, then start bad mouthing it.......no sense whatsoever."<br />December 27, 2011 6:56 AM <br /><br />Thanks for your time, skouti. Happy Holidays, and stay out of trouble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-24286167767428902642011-12-27T09:39:05.725-08:002011-12-27T09:39:05.725-08:00List continued from previous post:
Asia News
Reu...List continued from previous post:<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />The Guardian<br /><br />ABC<br /><br />New York Daily News<br /><br />Washington Post<br /><br />ABC News<br /><br />CNN<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />ABC News<br /><br />The Nation<br /><br />CNN<br /><br />Commentary<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />New York Daily News<br /><br />The Daily Mail<br /><br />The New York Times<br /><br />The Hill<br /><br />The Daily Mail<br /><br />Jakarta Post<br /><br />Al-Arabiya<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Christian Science Monitor<br /><br />The Malaysian Insider<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />New York Post<br /><br />The Jerusalem Post<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />BBC News<br /><br />BBC News<br /><br />Bloomberg News<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Haaretz<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />RIA Novosti<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />ANSAmed<br /><br />The Guardian<br /><br />World Net Daily<br /><br />IPT News<br /><br />Charleston Post and Courier<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Washington Post<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />National Review Online<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />The Telegraph<br /><br />All Voices<br /><br />Boston Globe<br /><br />CNN<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Jakarta Press<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />AFP<br /><br />The Media Line<br /><br />AKI<br /><br />Time Magazine<br /><br />Bloomberg News<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Israel National News<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Bikyamasr<br /><br />The Telegraph<br /><br />MEMRI<br /><br />Herald Sun<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />Compass Direct News<br /><br />Compass Direct News<br /><br />Compass Direct News<br /><br />The Jerusalem Post<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />Washington Post<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />The Daily Mail<br /><br />CNS News<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />UPI<br /><br />YNet News<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />The Jerusalem Post<br /><br />The Washington Times<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />BBC News<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />World Net Daily<br /><br />BBC News<br /><br />Jakarta Globe<br /><br />CBS Los Angeles<br /><br />Al Quds<br /><br />Express Tribune<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />YNet News<br /><br />AFP<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Compass Direct News<br /><br />Ahlul Bayt News Agency<br /><br />The Daily Caller<br /><br />Norway News<br /><br />Sydney Morning Herald<br /><br />Express Tribune<br /><br />Al Arabiya<br /><br />Miami Herald<br /><br />The Telegraph<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />New York Times<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />MSNBC<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />Agence France-PresseHesperadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10394374828751466705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-58941923676877109512011-12-27T09:37:52.696-08:002011-12-27T09:37:52.696-08:00This is a list of sources for the reports re-publi...This is a list of sources for the reports re-published on Jihad Watch in the month of November, 2011. The list is nearly complete. I left out pieces that were mere interpretation essays, or blog pieces advertising or reporting on Spencer's tour of Australia, and the like. Such types of pieces constitute a tiny fraction of the overall output. <br /><br />While some sources on the following list may be arguably of dubious reportorial merit (e.g., World Net Daily), and the credibility of others perhaps need to be further clarified (e.g., such Third World news sources as Compass News Direct or Free Malaysia Today, etc.) they are outweighed in quantity by the reputable sources:<br /><br />The Times (of London)<br /><br />Fox News (no one of credibility disputes that Fox News is an unremarkably mainstream and credible news source)<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />ANSAMed (<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />Voice of America<br /><br />Minivan News<br /><br />Evening Standard<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Yahoo News<br /><br />Evening Standard<br /><br />CNN<br /><br />Bloomberg News<br /><br />Jakarta Globe<br /><br />AdnKronos International<br /><br />Compass Direct News<br /><br />BBC News<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />The Telegraph<br /><br />The Daily Mail<br /><br />Los Angeles Times<br /><br />MSNBC<br /><br />The Guardian<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />CNN<br /><br />Indo-Asian News Service<br /><br />Free Malaysia Today<br /><br />The Telegraph<br /><br />The Telegraph<br /><br />The Malaysian Insider<br /><br />The Telegraph<br /><br />The Guardian<br /><br />Haaretz<br /><br />The Telegraph<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />The Independent<br /><br />YNet News<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />The West Australian<br /><br />Haveeru News Service<br /><br />BBC News<br /><br />CNN<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />NewsCore<br /><br />Herald Sun<br /><br />The Daily Trust via AllAfrica.com<br /><br />AAP<br /><br />World Net Daily<br /><br />RFI<br /><br />CNN<br /><br />The Daily Mail<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />The Jerusalem Post<br /><br />The Jerusalem Post<br /><br />BosNewsLife<br /><br />Agence France-Presse<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />World Net Daily<br /><br />Detroit News<br /><br />Asia News<br /><br />CNN<br /><br />ANSAmed<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />The Uptowner<br /><br />CNN<br /><br />The Jerusalem Post<br /><br />Express Tribune<br /><br />Associated Press<br /><br />Agence France-Press<br /><br />Reuters<br /><br />Asia Times<br /><br />Washington Post<br /><br />BBC NewsHesperadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10394374828751466705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4793384866525609075.post-79847830106113035472011-12-27T09:34:13.795-08:002011-12-27T09:34:13.795-08:00Hi skouti,
You're still avoiding questions 2 ...Hi skouti,<br /><br />You're still avoiding questions 2 and 3, I see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com