Tuesday, December 27, 2011

More background about who I am and what I am doing

Seems like there is a rumor going around that I am western educated and that I perhaps live in a western country because of my almost perfect English. Unfortunately, that is not the case, though I wish it were true but I have never really lived in any western country. I was born in Pakistan, moved to the Middle East when I was 10 years old, and since then have been here. I have visited a few places like Europe, Australia, Canada and the US, but never really lived or studied there. I have been an avid reader since I was 5 years old and have this voracious appetite for books which never got diminished. I started off with Enid Blyton, then went to Agatha Christie, then Mills & Boons and Barbara Cartland during my teens. I still remember those days when I used to read romance novels below my bedcovers with a pen torch lest my parents found out.  As you can see, the credit goes to my penchant for books, rather than to anything or anyone else. Besides, I have always watched a lot of American television and Hollywood movies, so that, too, has played an important part in my developing proper linguistic skills.

I have three siblings and I am the eldest. I have two brothers and a sister; all are married and settled except me, not because no one ever proposed to me, but because I just could not make myself do it, I mean sign a lifelong bondage/slavery contract with some fanatic Muslim man. Muslim men are such morons, I swear; they are hypocrites in the first degree. They have a different set of rules for themselves and a different one for their women.  Total male chauvinistic pigs... I was always fascinated with the idea of marrying a western non Muslim man who would love, honor and respect me as an equal instead of getting married to some clone of Mohammed.  I am sure everyone is aware of his famous words “Women are deficient in their minds” or “I have been to hell and seen it full of women”.  These and many other hadeeth and Quranic verses have proclaimed that women are inferior to men and that men have an upper hand on them.  I never really liked the teachings of Islam and used to wonder deep down why is Islam so backward and why it could not be progressive like Christianity. I had so many questions but never had the guts to voice my thoughts aloud until recently, when I just had an epiphany one fine day and I knew that I had to do it, do the unthinkable, the impossible: I have to become an apostate. Then the journey began; months of studying and researching accompanied with sleepless nights and mental trauma and affliction which finally lead me to the unspoken truth that Islam is a hoax, a lie, and a make believe religion invented by Mohammed to fulfill his own carnal and self serving desires.

Even though most people have given me their absolute support on my apostasy, there are some who are still in a doubt that if I really exist and wonder if I am just a figment of Spencer’s imagination. Why someone who happens to be a famous, well established and distinguished celebrity like Mr. Robert Spencer need to create an imaginary character like Liberated? It really does not make sense and it really causes me a lot of pain that I am not getting credit where it is due. I have gone through a lot, and whatever I am writing here on this blog comes straight from the bottom of my heart.  I am an apostate of Islam but let me make it clear, no one has brainwashed me, as some people like to believe. I am not some stupid, uneducated moron who would just get swayed away by someone.  No one forced it on me, no one asked me to leave Islam. I did it on my own because I truly never believed in many of its teachings and backward 7th century doctrine, but I just needed a push in the right direction, which was given to me by my mentor Ali Sina, as well as by some great writers like Mr. Robert Spencer, Mr. Daniel Pipes, Ms. Pamela Geller and Mr. Raymond Ibrahim.  These people have exposed Islam to the world like no one has ever done before, and I salute them all for their remarkable efforts.

During the last few months, I have studied Islam like never before. I have read dozens of books, different Quran translations, interpretations, biographies of Mohammed and the hadeeth.  During the next few weeks, I will try my best to bring forward the idiosyncrasies of Islam and its founder Mohammed.  Hopefully, one day people like Slave of Allah and Kai will give up this evil cult and join the group of humanity.

162 comments:

  1. Good on you! Liberated, but above all, intelligent :-)

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  2. Liberated,

    Not only is it great you left Islam; it's also great that you're a voracious reader. You seem intelligent and sensitive enough, I think, to appreciate and enjoy Shakespeare. I'd highly recommend you try to find some of his plays and sonnets. There are plenty of sites on the Net that offer free Shakespeare texts. I think you'll like them.

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  4. Well my love, my heart goes out to you.
    I feel the pain that you feel, the hurt that you
    feel, the lies that you have been told.
    I have been there too.
    Please shout out your message to the world !!!
    I pray that you get on the radio & the TV,newspapers
    You will always be in my heart.

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  5. (The perfectionist in me had to delete my comment because of a couple of mistakes.)

    Thinking of Liberated's plight and the solace she might receive from reading puts me in mind of the final scene of the 1977 movie A Special Day, starring Sophia Loren and Marcello Mastroianni.

    While some may balk at the liberal overtones of the plot (a gay Communist, played by Mastroianni, forms a special friendship one day with a neglected and exhausted lower middle class housewife, played by Loren), overall it's a great movie.

    Loren's character lives with her husband, children and extended family in a big apartment project. One day, nearly everybody in the project goes off to see the fascist dictator Mussolini appear in a parade. She is left virtually alone in the entire apartment complex all day long, ordered by her husband to stay and do chores. Then after a couple of hours, while she goes up to the roof to hang laundry, she discovers another person who decided not to go -- the gay Communist who incidentally happens to be in hiding from the government for being a "subversive".

    They strike up a friendship that over the course of the day deepens -- not romantically or sexually; just as two people sharing a bond of different types of oppressive lives.

    At the end, before he is arrested and taken away by police, he had given her a copy of The Three Musketeers, by the French writer Alexandre Dumas. So, after her family returns from the Mussolini parade, and she is able to steal a few minutes at the window between the demands of her abusive husband and her exhausting children after supper, she takes out the book and begins reading it: a way to escape into another world from a world made dreary and inhospitable by fascism -- much as Islam does for those who have the double misfortune both to be born into its Gulag, and to still, miraculously, have a heart.

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  8. "I am not some stupid, uneducated moron" : uneducated people are not stupid or morons, some are a lot smarter than the others and some can be dangerous beyond imaginations, a classic example- Mo himself. He was uneducated - he fooled amazing number of people over 1400 yrs ago. Though it was not him who imposed Islam for the last 1400 yrs. There were generations after generations of Arabs who successfully recruited so called "educated" morons throughout the World. They sold Islam with the aid of blackmail and terror. Nevertheless, all stupid uneducated morons deserve the same right as we all have, to be free and not bounded by any restrictions. Now you can explore the World and its riches with your mind. One of these days you will discover the light that you were looking for. It will be worth the wait - keep your heart and mind open for the real experience that you have missed all those years. Enjoy the freedom!

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  9. deleted my last comment because it wasn't clearly enough written

    I agree with Hesperado, Liberated. I'd add that if you check out Shakespeare (and I'll bet you've already seen some) it is best to see it, not read it. I very much like Kenneth Branagh's Shakespeare films. I loved Branagh's Henry V (probably my favorite film of all time), but if you still like romance novels, you might prefer Branagh's film versions of Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing, or As You Like It. Branagh's also done Hamlet.

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  10. Liberated:

    You wrote: "I have read dozens of books, different Quran translations, interpretations, biographies of Mohammed and the hadeeth."

    If you could provide what you can of the reading list (including books in Urdu, Arabic, etc. if there is any), I would appreciate it.

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  12. Usama - FYI - when you want to talk to a liberated lady, you ought to learn to respect her. So reword your request by using a polite and respectful manner, so use the word 'please'. She is no longer a Moslum, so you got to respect her.

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  13. I never met an ex-Muslim I didn't like. May God continue to bless you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

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  14. Dar-schan:

    It wasn't a demand, it was a request.

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  15. Liberated One,

    If you can get your hands on a New Testament, you'll find it to be excellent reading and a real eye-opener to compare the character, deeds and teachings of Jesus to the character, deeds and teachings of Mohammed.

    May the one true God continue to guide your steps as I can see He has been doing.

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  16. Usama - please re-read my post. I posted request; did I ever write demand? Each request has a value depending on the tone you use. So when you request with the word please, you may, if the lady willing, get an answer. The liberated ladies are privileged. They can be rude, but you'll have to remain polite nevertheless.

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  17. Traeh,

    Branagh's Henry V was great, but I enjoyed Much Ado About Nothing more -- he made excellent use of Emma Thompson, whose acting is truly great (far better than his), as well as wonderful scenes with her mother in real life, Phyllida Law, a great (mostly stage) actress in her own right. I'd be a little surprised if Liberated would be able to have access to Shakespeare movies, and astonished if the Muslim city or town she lives in has any actual Shakespeare plays; but you never know.

    P.S.: Is there a way I can reach you, or could you email me at myhesperado@yahoo.com -- I'd like to confer with you about something concerning Liberated which I don't want to do here. Thanks.

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  18. The Torah and New Testament are forgeries, as they make gods of the jews, while making virtual slaves of the Children of Adam {non-jews}. It is time christians recognize the New Testament for what it is: an instruction manual; “How to Serve and Worship Your Hostile Jinn aka Jew Masters for Dummies”. Yes, Allah “Chose” the jews, He “Chose” the species consisting of monkeys, swine, devils and jinn; to return back to the Hell-fire from which they were created. The Christians diabolical worship of a partially-eaten, jew corpse and their worshipping and serving clinically-insane, barn and zoo animals in the life of this world; mandates they receive the harshest punishment in the Hell-fire.

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    1. Hmmm... that's why muslims don't eat pig but act like pigs while jews collecting nobel-prizes..

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  19. S0A- go and get your head under a running cold water till it gets to the right temperature - better still go and get it treated, see a doctor quick. There is something really stinks in your post - oh man you got a problem that I would not wish it on my enemy ... you got it; not on MoSlums. I wish them well and peace. I understand how they may suffer under Islam. I know how much their mind is twisted and evilazed.. Thank God MoSlum women are leaving Islam by the mother lode.

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  20. Hesperado, I sent you an email, you can reply to it and we'll confer...

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  21. Hi liberated, their is no use in keep reading the fairy tales unless you want to amuse yourself. If you do I love the story in Sura Baqra its one of the funniest one.

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  22. Dar-schan:

    "please" is usually used when something is obligatory or demanded, which is not what I proposed, which is why I needn't say it.

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  23. You are a trailblazer. I think that you will give courage to many millions who need a role model--just a push--to become individuals. The power of women is invincible.

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  24. Those Jews are some smart pig-monkey-jinns! They've won something like 200 Nobel prizes. That's about 25% of the prizes ever given even though they're only 0.2% of the worldwide population. Man, imagine if Allah wasn't on their case for changing the Torah so it doesn't mention Old Mo any more. They'd probably have won every single prize!

    Also, why doesn't Allah let the Arabs destroy Israel already? They outnumber the Jews 100 to 1! He must be taking be a long nap up in Muslim heaven. Wake up, Allah!

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  25. Please be safe and cautious. We need your voice more than ever. You are a beacon of hope from a very dark part of the world. The power of your voice is greater than you even know!

    Unfortunately, here in America, the Left has alligned themselves with radical Islam and are using them to destroy the Judeo/Christian foundation that Western society is built upon.

    We must fight them with every weapon we have. And the most powerful weapon is the Truth. God stands with those who fight for the TRUTH and GOOD.

    As for you SLAVE OF ALLAH, your ignorance would overflow the banks of the Grand Canyon. It is fools like you that make the world a dark and dangerous place. Read a book beside the Koran. Maybe you'll learn something you moron.

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  26. Islam is the Devil's religion. He created this religion to give license to everything evil under the sun. So the practitioners of this death-cult feel it is right and good to murder, steal, rape, pillage and desecrate that which is Good. That in definition is Evil.

    Islam=Evil.

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  27. @Slave of Allah: Apparently, you are an ignorant, self-absorbed and brainwashed Moslim pig. Everything you have said is disgusting, antisemetic and, like you, horrible. You are stuck in a brainless cult of evil and sadly, believe all the trash your teachers have destroyed your feeble brain with.

    The sad truth is that your "knowledge" is based on lies and death. Unfortunately, you seem to have no ability to think for yourself - something Liberated has done. It has saved not only her life, but her soul. Too bad your life is wasted believing the filth your Moslem overlords have fed you.

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  28. In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says your "lives and property" are not safe from him unless you become a Muslim

    In Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the two most canonical hadith collections:

    Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:

    Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

    Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

    Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 5917:

    ...Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people? Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger, and when they do that then their blood and their riches are inviolable from your hands but what is justified by law and their reckoning is with Allah.

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  30. Delete Comment From: Liberated

    Blogger Quiet_Dave said...
    I also, had to correct some spelling and grammar before re-posting. Sorry about that.

    Slave of Allah couldn't even be original. That stupid piece he posted was a cut and paste of a threat sent by a Georgia Muslima that who was killed in recently in Georgia by a police officer she stabbed with a knife. She had made numerous threats to politicians and Mrs. Geller of "Atlas Shrugs" (which is where the quote was probably taken from) but was released and not held in jail.

    Many good wishes for you "Liberated." I hope you find your "Mr. Right" that will respect you and share your values that you might be "equally yoked" for eternity with your true love.

    Do add "A Marvelous Work and a Wonder" by Legrand Richards to your must read list. It is dated, but it has a very strong, logical Christian message to present.

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  31. Congratulations Liberated.
    Not sure where you'll go from here.
    Christianity is likely your natural choice amongst the worlds religions, but might I suggest you look at atheism as a possible spiritual home, as ironic as it may seem to marry the word spiritual with atheism.
    Why not look at the basic question of whether man/woman created G-d, or the other way around.
    You have a lifetime to seek the truth that is meaningful for you; good luck, and enjoy the journey.

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  32. "it really causes me a lot of pain that I am not getting credit where it is due"

    It's not necessary to prove anything or impress anyone. You do what you do for your conscience and your God. Good people will understand and support you. As for the others, just understand they are still seeing through a glass darkly.

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  33. So it begins.........another great post from spencer.....ooops sorry from the so called liberated one who had to read mills & boons under her bedsheets and improved her linguistic skills by watching american tv and hollywood films (the last thing any normal person would do), LOL. then spencer goes on to state "Muslim men are such morons"........ Is that all of them ? Have you met all of them ? Here is the classic - "I was always fascinated with the idea of marrying a western non Muslim man who would love, honor and respect me as an equal instead of getting married to some clone of Mohammed." Christ, I pity the poor man who has to put up with you.....that is a death sentence in itself. Now this one from spencer was the creme de la creme - "I am not getting credit where it is due. I have gone through a lot, and whatever I am writing here on this blog comes straight from the bottom of my heart. I am an apostate of Islam but let me make it clear, no one has brainwashed me" Well honey, glad you came out of the closet on that one, holy shit. All I can say to you is crack on with your apostate life but do spare us this train wreck of a story you are peddling because to be honest it is too funny to be true. Having said that I still don't understand why this fool hasn't spoken to her parents about this so called "road to damacus" moment. Instead she shacks up with known loons like spencer et al. Just doesn't ring true does it

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  34. Dear Liberated, You stated, "I was always fascinated with the idea of marrying a western non Muslim man who would love, honor and respect me as an equal instead of getting married to some clone of Mohammed". My advice to you would be not to place your faith in a man. Place your faith in Jesus Christ alone. If it is the will of the Lord for you to be married, He will bring that Christian husband to you. My own opinion is that most men around the world do not love, honor and respect their wives, including American men. The Bible says that in the last days men will be lovers of themselves.

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  35. It has always amazed me how people can accept the teachings of Mohammed such as amputations as punishment. I find it strange that they can accept that when he was over 50 he married a 6 year old girl and consummated the marriage after a couple of years. However, if they can accept that, why not accept the statement he made when he started having his visions i.e. he thought he was being visited by satan. The world would be a better place if Muslims listened to that statement rather than the other egotistical ramblings such as his instructions that none of his wives should be allowed to marry after he died. I encourage you. Read the Gospel of Matthew from beginning to end and see how Jesus shines with mercy, justice and glory compared with the sexual addiction of Mohammed. For Muslims who may read this, save yourselves and stop following the religion of satan

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  36. Liberated, here is one of the best web pages I've seen about Muhammad

    http://muhammad.x10.mx/

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  37. Grolier's encyclopedia says: "Christmas is the feast of the birth of Jesus Christ, celebrated on December 25 ... Despite the beliefs about Christ that the birth stories expressed, the church did not observe a festival for the celebration of the event until the 4th century.... since 274, under the emperor Aurelian, Rome had celebrated the feast of the "Invincible Sun" on December 25. In the Eastern Church, January 6, a day also associated with the winter solstice, was initially preferred. In course of time, however, the West added the Eastern date as the Feast of the Epiphany, and the East added the Western date of Christmas".
    The Greeks celebrated the 25th of December as the birthday of Hercules, the son of the supreme god of the Greeks, Zeus, through the mortal woman Alcmene Bacchus, the god of wine and revelry among the Romans (known among the Greeks as Dionysus) was also born on this day.
    Adonis, revered as a "dying-and-rising god" among the Greeks, miraculously was also born on the 25th of December. His worshipers held him a yearly festival representing his death and resurrection, in midsummer. The ceremonies of his birthday are recorded to have taken place in the same cave in Bethlehem which is claimed to have been the birth place of Jesus .
    The Romans observed this day as the birthday of the god of the sun, Natalis Solis Invicti ("Birthday of Sol the invincible"). There was great rejoicing and all shops were closed. There was illumination and public games. Presents were exchanged, and the slaves were indulged in great liberties. These are the same Romans who would later preside over the council of Nicea (325 CE) which lead to the official Christian recognition of the "Trinity" as the "true" nature of God, and the "fact" that Jesus was born on the 25th of December too.
    In Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon says: "The Roman Christians, ignorant of his (Christ's) birth, fixed the solemn festival to the 25th of December, the Brumalia, or Winter Solstice, when the Pagans annually celebrated the birth of Sol " vol. ii, p. 383.
    There are several Christian groups who are opposed to Christmas. For example, they take the verse from the Bible in Jeremiah 10:2-4 as an admonition against decorating Christmas trees.
    The King James Version reads: "Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen.... For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

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  38. The Puritans believed that the first-century church modeled a Christianity that modern Christians should copy. They attempted to base their faith and practice solely on the New Testament, and their position on Christmas reflected their commitment to practice a pure, scriptural form of Christianity. Puritans argued that God reserved to himself the determination of all proper forms of worship, and that he disapproved of any human innovations - even innovations that celebrated the great events of salvation. The name Christmas also alienated many Puritans. Christmas, after all, meant "the mass of Christ." The mass was despised as a Roman Catholic institution that undermined the Protestant concept of Christ, who offered himself once for all. The Puritans' passionate avoidance of any practice that was associated with papal Rome caused them to overlook the fact that in many countries the name for the day had nothing to do with the Catholic mass, but focused instead on Jesus' birth. The mass did not evolve into the form abhorred by Protestants until long after Christmas was widely observed. The two customs had separate, though interconnected, histories.
    As ardent Protestants, Puritans identified the embracing of Christianity by the Roman Emperor Constantine in the early 300s CE as the starting point of the degeneration and corruption of the church. They believed the corruption of the church was brought on by the interweaving of the church with the pagan Roman state. To Puritans, Christmas was impure because it entered the Roman Church sometime in this period. No one knows the exact year or under what circumstances Roman Christians began to celebrate the birth of their Lord, but by the mid-300s CE, the practice was well established.

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  39. Mohammed was a pedophile and a false prophet. His goals were to raise an army, accumulate wealth and get laid.

    Contrast that with Jesus Christ whose sole purpose on earth was to save mankind from the penalty they so richly deserved for their sins.

    Read the Bible, read the Quran and the validity of my assessment jumps off the pages.

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  40. Read Merchant of Venice,a tragic comedy by William Shakespeare
    P.S. Muhammad is more influential than Jesus

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  41. Slave of Allah said...
    Read Merchant of Venice,a tragic comedy by William Shakespeare
    P.S. Muhammad is more influential than Jesus


    On Judgement Day "EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD'. Mo's influence is temporal and finite in duration, his influence will be distroyed by the one true God and cast into the Lake of Fire. Unlike Jesus, Mo is not fire insurance for the sinner.

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  42. Slave of Allah said...
    Read Merchant of Venice,a tragic comedy by William Shakespeare
    P.S. Muhammad is more influential than Jesus


    On Judgement Day "EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD'. Mo's influence is temporal and finite in duration, his influence will be distroyed by the one true God and cast into the Lake of Fire. Unlike Jesus, Mo is not fire insurance for the sinner.

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  43. Shacklefree: she is a free woman. The MoSlums, the armpits of the World, have a problem with people who exercise their freedom of expression. If she wants to be the best buddy of Robert, the guy we respect more than you respect Mo, good luck to her and him. It is none of your f...ing business - do you get that Umi.

    I respect Robert for more than thousand reasons. I can communicate with him and he is standing for the human rights that are under threat from the evil sect, aka Islam. Respecting him is billion times better than even thinking about respecting a pedophile, rapists, murderer SOB who may not even have existed over thousand years ago. Does that make sense to you? Of course not - you moron.

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  44. Liberated,

    The apparently-Muslim commenters who come on here with their "doubts" about you being an ex-Muslim are just grasping at whatever they can to try and oppose you and your intentions. They are not making genuine arguments; they are trying to cause confusion and distraction.

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  45. mahound was just "allah's" aka Satan's butt-buddy. They're both having a good laugh in Hell about how they fooled so many musloids into believing in their pigshit cult!

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  46. Forgive me shaklefree, my last post was directed at
    SKOUTI / skouti

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  47. To Greenforest,

    Spencer's creation can do whatever s/he likes i.e. leave Islam, no problem, go right ahead. Don't you think it is weird or slightly disturbing that those who leave Islam, then go on to study/read about islam. If I left one religion for another, I would learn as much as I can about the new religion but those who leave Islam spend more time on Islam. Look at those who convert to Islam, they are much more interested in the new religion they have joined. So far all we have heard from the so called liberated one is constant diatribe of how bad Islam is.....well we never would have guessed that but the question is will such people get over it and move on. Hence such a person is really unbelievable and more of a vehicle of spencer's imagination. You can see this blog turning into a "I hate Islam" blog but no mention made of the new religion

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  48. skouti,
    I have had the honour to meet several ex-muslim women, and I can witness that they generally fall into two groups.
    One group are those who are too scared, or may be a bit selfish, to ever talk about the experience again. If women, they usually strive to find a strong protective partner, get new name & residence, and to disappear in the crowd. The other group are those willing to fight - often because of feelings of solidarity and responsibility with other women, including guilt feeling for their previous dawah activities.
    Either way, they will hardly "forget and move on". Leaving islamic ummah and realising what they participated on is such a mind-shaking experience, that it is hard to do so.

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  49. Martin,

    Such people have to reach a point where they must move on otherwise they are just beating themselves for no good reason. What good does it do anyone to re-hash their bad experiences. if these ex-muslims cannot get on with their new lives then there is something psychologically wrong with such folks. As for participating in such a mind shaking experience, what would you say to the 1.5 billion muslims who are quite happy with Islam ?

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  50. skouti,

    You wrote:
    "Well honey, glad you came out of the closet on that one, holy shit."

    FYI, that usage of "honey" is regarded as sexist.

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  51. About the Islamic conquest of India, here is what Will Durant, in his eight volume Story of Civilization, says on page 459-462 of Volume 1:

    The Mohammedan Conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history...The first Moslem attack was a passing raid upon Multan, in the western Punjab (664 AD). Similar raids occurred at the convenience of the invaders during the next three centuries, with the result that the Moslems established themselves in the Indus Valley about the same time that their Arab co-religionists in the West were fighting the battle of Tours (732 AD) for the mastery of Europe...In the year 997 a Turkish chieftain...swept across the [Indian] frontier with a force inspired by a pious aspiration for booty. He met the unprepared Hindus at Bhimnagar, slaughtered them, pillaged their cities, destroyed their temples, and carried away the accumulated treasures of centuries...Each winter Mahmud descended into India, filled his treasure chest with spoils, and amused his men with full freedom to pillage and kill...he expressed his admiration for the architecture of the great shrine [at Mathura on the Jumna], judged that its duplication would cost one hundred million dinars and the labor of two hundred years, and then ordered it to be soaked with naphtha and burnt to the ground. Six years later he sacked another opulent city of northern India, Somnath, killed all its fifty thousand inhabitants, and dragged its wealth to Ghazni...The first of [the] bloody sultans [of the Sultanate of Delhi] was a normal specimen of his kind -- fanatical, ferocious, and merciless. His gifts, as the Mohammedan historian tells us, "were bestowed by hundreds of thousands, and his slaughters likewise were by hundreds of thousands." Sultan Muhammad bin Tughlak...killed so many Hindus that, in the words of a Moslem historian, "there was constantly in front of his royal pavilion and his Civil Court a mound of dead bodies and a heap of corpses, while the sweepers and executioners were wearied out by their work of dragging" the victims "and putting them to death in crowds."..His successor, Firoz Shah, invaded Bengal, offered a reward for every Hindu head, paid for 180,000 of them, raided Hindu villages for slaves...Sultan Ahmad Shah feasted for three days whenever the number of defenseless Hindus slain in his territories in one day reached twenty thousand...The usual policy of the Sultans was clearly sketched by Alau-d-din, who required his advisers to draw up "rules and regulations for grinding down the Hindus..." Half of the gross produce of the soil was collected by the [Islamic] government; native rulers had taken one-sixth. "No Hindu," says a Moslem historian, "could hold up his head, and in their houses no sign of gold or silver...or of any superfluity was to be seen...Blows, confinement in the stocks, imprisonment and chains, were all employed to enforce payment."

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  52. Greenforest,

    My first post was a stab at humour and to demonstrate how easy it is to pick spencer's blog apart.

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  53. On page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he affirms that those who do not follow him will be "slaughtered":

    Abu jahl said to them: "Muhammad alleges that if you follow him you will be kings of the Arabs and the Persians. Then after death you will be raised to gardens like those of the Jordan. But if you do not follow him you will be slaughtered, and when you are raised from the dead you will be burned in the fire of hell." The apostle [Muhammad] came out to them with a handful of dust saying: "I do say that."

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  54. Liberated,
    I just want to thank you for sharing your story with us, and commend you on your bravery. Please take care of yourself -- it would be a shame if something were to happen to you as a result of your defying Islam. I sincerely hope your life changes for the better now that you've broken free from those chains of repression.

    Now, to the other commentators who are Christians and zealous about it: Will you please shut up? If she decides she wants to find Jesus, she'll do it on her own time, and your posting that you hope she joins another cult after just finally having the moral courage to leave this one makes you sound like a tool. Christianity is better than Islam, but that's like saying having a root canal is better than having your right leg amputated. It still sucks either way. Let her make her own decisions -- offer her your prayers, if you want, but quit suggesting she join your cult. It's annoying.

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  55. skouti,

    So you think that referring to Liberated as "honey"--a clearly sarcastic and sexist usage in this context--is humorous?

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  56. Slave of Allah, when you use someone else's writing, but you do not tell people you are using it, and you try to pass it off as your own writing, you become what is called a plagiarist.

    Some synonyms for plagiarism: piracy, counterfeiting; theft.

    I'd say that makes you an untrustworthy witness here.

    ReplyDelete
  57. St. John of the Damascus was born into a prominent Arab Christian family known as Mansour. He served for a time as a high official of the Umayyad caliphs, before leaving to become a monk.

    'There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist. They are descended from Ishmael, [who] was born to Abraham of Agar, and for this reason they are called both Agarenes and Ishmaelites. They are also called Saracens, which is derived from Sarras kenoi, or destitute of Sara, because of what Agar said to the angel: ‘Sara hath sent me away destitute.’ These used to be idolaters and worshiped the morning star and Aphrodite, whom in their own language they called Khabár, which means great. And so down to the time of Heraclius they were very great idolaters. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. . . [They] accuse us of being idolaters, because we venerate the Cross, which they abominate. And we answer them: ‘How is it, then, that you rub yourselves against a stone in your Ka’ba and kiss and embrace it?’ Then some of them say that Abraham had relations with Agar upon it, but others say that he tied the camel to it, when he was going to sacrifice Isaac. And we answer them: ‘Since Scripture says that the mountain was wooded and had trees from which Abraham cut wood for the holocaust and laid it upon Isaac, and then he left the asses behind with the two young men, why talk nonsense? For in that place neither is it thick with trees nor is there passage for asses.’ And they are embarrassed; but they still assert that the stone is Abraham’s. Then we say: ‘Let it be Abraham’s, as you so foolishly say. Then, just because Abraham had relations with a woman on it or tied a camel to it, you are not ashamed to kiss it, yet you blame us for venerating the Cross of Christ by which the power of the demons and the deceit of the Devil was destroyed.’ This stone that they talk about is a head of that Aphrodite whom they used to worship and whom they called Khabar. Even to the present day, traces of the carving are visible on it to careful observers.'

    St. John of Damascus, Father and Doctor of the Church (c. 676 – 749 A.D

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  58. On page 547 (814 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad permits a threat of beheading to force a conversion to Islam:

    He [Muhammad] said: "Woe to you Abu Sufyan, isn't it time that you recognize that I am God's apostle?" He [Sufyan] answered, "As to that I still have some doubt." I [Ibn Abbas] said to him [Sufyan], "Submit and testify that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the apostle of God before you lose your head," so he [Sufyan] did so.

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  59. Greenforest,

    My bad for not realising that spencer's creation lacked a sense of humour.......still far too easy to pick his blog post apart

    ReplyDelete
  60. From a core Islamic text, a hadith in which Muhammad said there is to be no punishment for murdering someone who insults him

    From Sunan Abu-Dawud, a canonical hadith collection:
    Book 38, Number 4348:

    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

    A blind man had a slave-mother [a slave who bore children for him] who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He [the blind man] forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he [the blind man] took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

    He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

    He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

    Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

    Another canonical hadith:

    Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38, Number 4349:

    Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

    A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

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  61. skouti,

    The issue is not humour, but rather your use of a sexist remark. Trying to pass it off as humour doesn't excuse it.

    There are of course bigger problems with your comments. For example, in the previous thread you condoned violence against apostates who "bad mouthed" Islam.

    If it is really so easy to "pick apart" Liberated's case, why do you keep resorting to misogyny, threats, and diversions?

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  62. Greenforest,

    I had not realised that you were liberated's spokesperson. Let her speak or let spencer speak on her behalf about how sexist my post may or may not be. As for liberated bad mouthing Islam, the whole point of this blog is to do exactly that, would you not agree ? Am just wondering apostates feel the need to do that rather than just getting on with their lives i.e. they leave islam but for reasons best known to themselves they carry on about islam. Very strange indeed

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  63. Here's a short video that shows on camera the core Islamic texts and the numerous canonical ahadith in which Muhammad calls for the death of apostates from Islam.

    apostasy in Islam
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju3HsWLyVlQ

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  64. Human Rights and Islam

    Check out these pie charts from the international human rights organization Freedom House. Scroll down to the regional pie charts. The pie chart for the Middle East/North Africa -- the core Islamic region -- shows the most unfree area in the world. However, one country included in the Middle East/North Africa pie chart is listed as "free." Can you guess which one that is? (Hint: It's not Islamic.)

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  65. Skouti said "Let her speak or let spencer speak on her behalf about how sexist my post may or may not be."

    She is the one who spoken for herself. You don't appear to respect that. You folks are such chameleons, no wonder she said "I was always fascinated with the idea of marrying a western non Muslim man who would love, honor and respect me as an equal instead of getting married to some clone of Mohammed." - you are nothing but a predictable clone like the rest of 1.2 billion losers. Go and get a life. I and the other 4.8 billion people like to read about what the X-MoSlums thought of Islam. she has the right to write and talk about anything she likes. She is a FREE person. We respect her for telling us the truth. We can figure when someone throws HS around. We spotted you from a mile.

    They say the Truth hurts - that is really the case for the islamic nut jobs all over the place.

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  66. skouti,

    Once again, you attempt to divert from the issue I raised in this thread: your sexist remark. I do not fancy myself, nor do I need to be, Liberated's spokesperson, in order to object to your sexist remark (or your violence-condoning remarks, etc.).

    I share some of Liberated's objections to Islam, and therefore you would probably also accuse me of "bad mouthing" Islam and Muhammad. You are simply trying to paint legitimate, true, and justified criticism of Islam as "bad mouthing," as if we are engaging in some kind of nasty gossip about this ideology and its figurehead.

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  67. dar-schan (another one of spencer's useful idiots)

    we are all pleased you came out of the closet too......stay classy as a HATER :)

    ReplyDelete
  68. In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says beat your wife, no questions asked

    In Sunan Abu Dawud, a canonical hadith collection:

    Book 11, Number 2142:

    Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:

    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.

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  69. Dear rational humans who read Liberated's blog,

    Let's honor Liberated's request to ignore the mohamedans who post venomous comments here. She made that request in her Christmas Day blog post, if you will read it there. To respond to the mohamedans merely gives them the attention they seek and achieves their purpose: to detract from Liberated's victory over islam. Let's not aid them. When they post filthy comments, it's because they are going berserk and are frothing at the mouth; so they express their tantrums by spuing death threats, lies and calumny. Let's not stoop to their level.

    (Also, I enjoin ioffendyou's call to the zealots among you: please back off :-) This blog is about Liberated and her freedom from islam.)

    Thank you for reading me.

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  70. Greenforest,

    your objection is duly noted. Shall we move on ?

    There is a huge difference between criticising any religion (none of them are perfect) and indulging in hate mongering as some of your ilk have demonstrated. the point I am simply making is why does someone like liberated feel the need to start a blog slating a religion she allegedly left ??? doesn't that strike you as weird ? if you left a religion wouldn't you want to learn about the new religion you joined rather than whinging on about the religion you left. liberated might have a lot more credibility if she started a blog on finding a new religion etc but no, this creation of spencer just wants to fill the internet with more HATE.......nice

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  71. skouti,

    It's understandable that Liberated, upon leaving Islam, would want to discuss with others why she believes Islam is wrong. There are harsh restrictions on criticizing Islam, so she has set up an anonymous blog in order to communicate to others what the Islamic authorities and vigilantes want to stop her from expressing.

    Surely you can understand why someone whose voice is suppressed by corrupt authorities, who forbid freedom of expression and freedom of conscience, would want to speak out against the injustices in Islam and Islamic societies?

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  72. From page 464 (690 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad presides over the beheading of 600 to 900 captive Jews:

    Then [the Banu Qurayza tribe] surrendered, and the apostle [Muhammad] confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, 'Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!' This went on until the apostle made an end of them.

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  73. Also, when people are traumatized and victimized, one of the ways they overcome that trauma is to tell people about it. Research shows that the traumatic events must sometimes be recounted numerous times to various people in order to maximize psychological and spiritual healing.

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  74. Skouti: I speak for myself. I do not follow or obey any rituals. I consider Islam as the ultimate enemy of Humanity based on the destruction and pain it caused through out the history of the World. Don't read Islamic history which is obviously biased, read the history of the people who suffered generations of Islamic tyranny. No one has anything good to say about Islam except the Moslums or dhimmies.

    Christianity was also involved in some wrong doings. Those acts are not condoned by the Bible. There are more than 90% Christians who will admit the wrong doings and wrong directions in Bible. That was the reason the New Testament was produced.

    A Moslum cannot admit that Quran contains evil text that cannot be accepted. Therefore something needs to change - either you or the Quran. There is a fat chance that any Moslum will change the quran, but they can change themselves, like the liberated on this site.

    You do not speak for anyone here except yourself. So try not to pretend the rest of the posters are in agreement with your postings. You ducking the questions. You are corned. People figure folks like you are hot air - no substance. Keep on following that pedophile pride you will live in misery and you will die a miserable person. What happens after you die, no one knows. Obviously the camel abusers promise you eternal sex if you die for their cause. What a bunch of crooks. And you follow that!

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  75. Greenforest,

    of course a certain amount of introspection is necessary when one is going through a divorce of sorts. Apparently it helps some to vent for a while. Shall we have a wager to see how long the liberated one needs to get Islams loss off her chest ? I am pretty confident that this blog has soley been created to slate Islam and you will read about nothing else. Again, no one can answer why this person has not spoken to her parents or her siblings about this life changing event but insteads decides to jump on the internet.......just doesn't ring true I am afraid. Would you follow this course of action ?

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  76. dar-schan,

    you still a HATER :)

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  77. skouti: "no one can answer why this person has not spoken to her parents or her siblings"

    What?! See, for example, this:

    Percentage of honor killings done by Muslims

    According to the article "Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings," published in the Middle East Forum, Muslims do 91 percent of honor killings worldwide and 96 percent of honor killings in Europe. If you click on the above link, those percentages can be found five paragraphs below the heading "Methodology."

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  78. Traeh (@ December 28, 2011 1:54 PM):

    Good point.


    skouti,

    If she hasn't spoken to her family about this, perhaps she has legitimate reasons to fear doing so.

    That she expresses this on the internet is easily understood for the reasons I explained above. In addition, in this age of modern technology, getting on the internet and discussing one's views on politics or religion is hardly unusual; it is ordinary.

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  79. skouti,

    p.s.,

    "Would you follow this course of action ?"

    If I were in Liberated's shoes, probably, yes; I would want to communicate my views somewhere if I did not otherwise have a safe outlet.

    More broadly, we are all doing what Liberated is doing: discussing hot-button important issues about politics and religion, in this case Islam's policies.

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  80. Jesus isn't the son of God and he damn sure didn't die for me...

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  81. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  82. I figured out who Liberated is, it is Robert Spencer in drag...

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  83. skouti,

    "what would you say to the 1.5 billion muslims who are quite happy with Islam"

    There no such thing as "happy muslim", perhaps except for few fresh converts, who had not proceeded too far in their islamic "careers".
    Islam is fear, dear buddy, and they are all hell-scared of other muslims, including their own families, of hellfire, and of course of allah.
    Trust me: I saw a lot. And what I saw in islam was fear, and fear, and fear.

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  84. Skouti: I never read any text in the Bible that teaches people to hate the other people. However, I have read hundreds of blatant instructions in Quran about hating the people who do not follow Islam.

    I have not learnt to hate. OTOH, every MoSlum who goes to a MoSque every Friday learns step by step "How to hate and kill non-Mohamedians?". That is evident after every Friday prayer outside Mosques throughout the World.

    I think 80% of the people will agree that I am not a HATER. You are a minority to think I am a HATER. OTOH, if you are a MoSLum you are taught from the early age to HATE others. How can that be a normal living? Therefore when you can't answer others you call them HATERS. You are pathetic.

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  85. Greenforest,

    So liberated parents would kill her.....obviously so, should have seen that one coming, why would they do that ? no doubt liberated will post a new blog stating her parents threatened to have her killed etc. by the way honour killings predate all the worlds religions and is more tied to cultural/tribal reasons but I realise for some it will be convenient to blame that on islam too

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  86. skouti - "by the way honour killings predate all the worlds religions and is more tied to cultural/tribal reasons but I realise for some it will be convenient to blame that on islam too"

    You don't pick up on the evidence, you don't care much about the evidence, because it blows the top of the Islamic teachings and Islam.

    You are at the very best a clown. Merry Christmas.

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  87. skouti, over 90% of honor killings worldwide are done by Muslims. That predominance is not just "cultural" but is based in Islamic law, and because it is based in Islamic law, the legal penalties for honor killing in many Islamic countries are minimal.

    A standard Islamic legal reference, certified by Al-Azhar, the chief center of Islamic and Arabic learning in the world, not only says one can kill one's children or grandchildren with impunity; impunity also extends to a Muslim who kills a non-Muslim, and to non-Muslims who kill apostates from Islam:

    From page 583-584 of The Reliance of the Traveller/Umdat Al-Salik:

    o1.2 The following are not subject to retaliation:

    1. a child or insane person, under any circumstances...

    2. a Muslim for killing a non-Muslim;

    3. a Jewish or Christian subject of the Islamic state for killing an apostate from Islam...

    4. a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring;


    From the back cover of Reliance of the Traveller:

    "There is no doubt that this translation is a valuable and important work, whether as a textbook for teaching Islamic jurisprudence to English speakers, or as a legal reference for use by scholars, educated laymen, and students in this language."
    -
    Dr. Taha Jabir al-Alwani, president of the International Institute of Islamic Thought

    The back cover also says the book

    ...is the first translation of a standard Islamic legal reference in a European language to be certified by Al-Azhar, the Muslim world's oldest institution of higher learning. It presents an explanative interpretation of Umdat al-Salik, a classic Sunni manual of Sacred law...­­­­­­­­­

    ReplyDelete
  88. Martin,

    did you see all that fear of islam on jihad watch ? You, like the other spencer trolls (dar-schan being my favourite one)here need to get out more. you stated there is "no such thing as a happy muslim" - Greenforest take note........this is what happens when you spend too much time reading the nonsense that spencer peddles

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  89. Catholic priests molest little boys and the clergy hides it....

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  90. The crusades were Christian Terrorism yet no one talks about it...

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  91. On page 672 (992 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he says

    ...kill those who disbelieve in God.

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  92. Did the Jews snitch on Jesus to the Romans? So the Jews did kill Jesus! I hope that wasn't an antisemitic post

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  93. Bernard Lewis says Jihad is an unlimited offensive to bring the whole world under Islamic law; Christian crusades a defensive, limited response to, and imitation of, jihad. From pp.233-234 of The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years

    Even the Christian crusade, often compared with the Muslim jihad, was itself a delayed and limited response to the jihad and in part also an imitation. But unlike the jihad it was concerned primarily with the defense or reconquest of threatened or lost Christian territory...The Muslim jihad, in contrast, was perceived [by Muslims] as unlimited, as a religious obligation that would continue until all the world had either adopted the Muslim faith or submitted to Muslim rule.… The object of jihad is to bring the whole world under Islamic law.

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  94. The italicized text in my 2:52 comment is from Lewis' book on page 233-234.

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  95. Slave of Allah said: "So the Jews did kill Jesus! I hope that wasn't an antisemitic post"

    Your post was anti-semitic, because while some Jews were involved in Jesus's death, Jesus himself and his disciples were Jews, as were virtually all of Jesus' supporters. In other words, the Jews reacted to Jesus somewhat the way everyone else reacts, i.e., in a great variety of ways. But you choose to tar the Jews as a whole group.

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  96. On page 369 (554 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad says "kill any Jew who falls into your power":

    It's a "charming" story of two brothers, Muhayyissa and Huwayyisa: (To avoid confusing the two brothers, keep in mind that the brother whose name begins with M is the Murderer in the story.)

    "The apostle [Muhammad] said, ‘Kill any Jew that falls into your power.Thereupon Muhayyisa bin Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed [the Jewish merchant] Huwayyisa began to beat [his brother Muhayyisa], saying, 'You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?' Muhayyisa answered, 'Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.'...[Huwayyisa] replied, 'By God, if Muhammad had ordered you to kill me would you have killed me?' [Muhayyisa] said, 'Yes, by God, had he ordered me to cut off your head I would have done so.' [Huwayyisa] exclaimed, "By God, a religion which can bring you to this is marvellous!' and [Huwayyisa] became a Muslim."

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  97. skouti,

    "So liberated parents would kill her.....obviously so, should have seen that one coming, why would they do that ?"

    I didn't claim that, because I don't know such details of Liberated's situation. From what I gather, having read each of Liberated's posts thus far, is that she currently lives in a Middle Eastern country in which Islam holds sway, and she fears being imprisoned or killed if her apostasy is discovered. This is plausible because most Muslim-majority Middle Eastern countries have harsh penalties for public apostasy and criticism of Islam or Muhammad.

    "by the way honour killings predate all the worlds religions and is more tied to cultural/tribal reasons but I realise for some it will be convenient to blame that on islam too"

    The issue here is the threat of serious harm or death for leaving and criticizing Islam publicly. This threat arises in Islamic law and Islamic custom proper. There may be an additional para-Islamic honor-type threat, which is condoned in Islam law and custom proper.

    But I don't blame that on Islam, which is merely an ideology. I blame that on the large minorities to large majorities of Muslims who think apostates should be punished. Only when the vast majority of Muslims abolish the penalties for apostasy and actively work toward protecting apostates will we begin to see a positive change in the direction of freedom of religion and conscience in the Islamic world.

    "is "no such thing as a happy muslim" - Greenforest take note........this is what happens when you spend too much time reading the nonsense that spencer peddles"

    I never claimed any such nonsense, nor did Spencer. Of course there are happy Muslims. But I don't see how the existence of happy Muslims helps Liberated and so many apostates and Islam critics like her.

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  98. Why would she need to consult with her parents or siblings ? She's an intelligent and serious adult, not some helpless little child.

    What she is seeking is not something that her parents or her friends can provide. She made the right decision to explore philosophy independently, on her own. It makes perfect sense for her to communicate with the world outside of her usual familiar (and now potentially hostile) cultural/ideological environment.

    It's 21st century, hello-o-o !?!
    Welcome to the Internet.

    Only an insecure paranoid muslim fanatic would see some kind of "conspiracy" here.

    (Reminds me of the Stalinist times in the USSR, when all dissent was in absence of any evidence immediately labeled as "antisoviet propaganda of the reactionary capitalist borgeoisie" and every dissident was accused of being an "agent of imperialism", "foreign saboteur" and "enemy of the people".)

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  99. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  100. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  101. "What would you say to the 1.5 billion muslims who are quite happy with Islam ?"

    Size of the collective, as well as the percentage of happy people in that collective are not indicative of the validity (or quality) of their commonly shared ideas or habits.
    (Happy alcoholics, happy nazis, happy idiots.)

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  102. Greenforest, I replied to your email by email.

    ReplyDelete
  103. to kafir:

    "Size of the collective, as well as the percentage of happy people in that collective are not indicative of the validity (or quality) of their commonly shared ideas or habits.
    (Happy alcoholics, happy nazis, happy idiots.)"

    You could also add happy christians (who are also happy alcoholics, happy nazis and happy idiots)

    To Greenforest:

    It does appear that the solution for spencer's creation is to find somwehere else to live. she is obviously not happy with her lot in life and has a problem with Islam too. As going to assume she has not even spoken to her parents about this or even spoken to her siblings which one would expect a normal person to do otherwise what does this say about her relationship with her family, not a very good one by all accounts

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  104. skouti,

    Very well then. Please suggest a relatively safe country that has open immigration policy and which allows free and open criticism of Islam and protection to apostates of Islam, where Liberated will not be at risk of harm for publicizing under her real name her criticisms of Islam and Muhammad. Or, name me a public apostate of Islam who critiques Islam and Muhammad and who is not in danger.

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  105. Greenforest,

    "Please suggest a relatively safe country that has open immigration policy and which allows free and open criticism of Islam and protection to apostates of Islam"

    A relatively safe country that has an open immigration policy.....you jest now :) or are you referring to the USA, looks like that country has an open immigration policy. just about anyone can get in and remain there infinitum. perhaps spencer's creation can obtain the necessary funds from her supporters here (wasn't going to be cheap now was it) to help her make the move. Greenforest would you be willing to part with your hard earned cash to help the liberated one ?

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  106. skouti,

    You failed. Public apostates who criticize Islam and Muhammad are not safe in the United States. They need to pay the high costs for security, body guards, etc. If you can find a country where public apostates who are critical of Islam and Muhammad are safe, let me know.

    As far as I'm aware Liberated hasn't asked for money. But if I were wealthy (which I'm not), I would contribute, yes.

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  107. Greenforest,

    Life is a bitch, even in the USA. So looks like spencer's creation is screwed no matter which country she lands in, assuming of course she is such an important person to waste ones money on for bodyguards......all very melodramatic indeed. Save your money Greenforest.

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  108. skouti,

    Earlier you wrote: "I am pretty confident that this blog has soley been created to slate Islam and you will read about nothing else."

    I'm not sure if 100% of this blog will consist of criticisms against Islam and Muhammad, but, if it is to be, so what? What's wrong with starting up a blog to criticize some religion or political system and its leader?

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  109. skouti,

    p.s. You lampooned as "melodramatic" the need for public apostate critics of Islam to be protected by bodyguards. May I remind you who is to blame for contributing to this "drama":

    skouti: "Is it any wonder such folks get beaten up when they decide to leave a religion, then start bad mouthing it"

    So at minimum, you're condoning that violence, then denying that anyone should be protected from it.

    Listen, if your goal is to defend the image of Islam and Muhammad here, you could do a better job of it. Just sayin'.

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  110. Shakila, lemme know if u wanna leave your Muslim country for a western or non-Muslim country or perhaps even a relatively liberal Muslim country...

    yours in need...
    that would be real nice...thnx a lot!!!
    Jose Sanchez

    email me josesanchez1985@hotmail.com

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  111. Anyone want to wager that skouti and slave are the frightfully ugly and disgusting jihadists Ahmed Rehab and Reza Aslan?

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  112. please don't publish this again publicly...I really want to help u out...and I am a closet atheist in a Muslim country but originally from the West...I would truly love to help you guys out...I feel really sad for you Pakistani women and what the fanatics are doing to you...

    Email me at josesanchez1985@hotmail.com ...I feel sad for you....and I'd luv to help u out!

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  113. Greenforest,

    "I'm not sure if 100% of this blog will consist of criticisms against Islam and Muhammad, but, if it is to be, so what? "

    Just bizarre that somebody who wants to leave Islam, but can't really let go eh :)


    "Listen, if your goal is to defend the image of Islam and Muhammad here, you could do a better job of it. Just sayin'."

    Oh I am sure Islam will survive a spaced out apostate leaving......by all accounts Islam will be a better religion with this particular HATER.....don't you agree especially considering the number of people joining Islam are far greater......explain that one ?

    Looks like the offers of help are rolling in :)

    ReplyDelete
  114. skouti,

    I am not sure that Islam is gaining more converts than other religions, proportion-wise or in absolute numbers. Do you have any data to back up your assertion?

    I believe that much of Islam survives through illegitimate or unfair means. For example, the harsh punishments for apostates and critics serves to force people to remain in the religion and not question it. Expression becomes more limited, thought then becomes more limited. In addition, in the modern contexts where people are free to "proselytize" to try to persuade people to convert to their religion (or nonreligious belief), of the major religions only Islam maintains harsh punishments for these other-religion proselytizers. You are free to convert to Islam, but you are not free to convert out of Islam or persuade someone else out of Islam. So the Muslim hard-liners who maintain these old rules are cheating to get an advantage over the other religions, instead of allowing a level playing field with a free and open exchange of ideas.

    BTW, your "hater" accusation is quite infantile and absurd, besides being a logical fallacy in the mode you employ it. If Liberated or anyone else has said something incorrect, it is your job to refute it substantively. Even your Quran says argue in a way that is better. What do you make of that?

    ReplyDelete
  115. skouti,

    p.s. If you are this skeptical about the existence of Liberated--someone who has actually produced writing here and posted at Faithfreedom and Jihadwatch--why are you not much more skeptical of the existence of "Muhammad" and "Allah"? There is a lot less evidence for Muhammad (and no evidence that he was a prophet), and there is no evidence at all for Allah.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Greenforest,

    There have been various reports about the number of converts to Islam, though there hasn't been any empirical studies done as such. Apparently news reports suggest that conversion to Islam amongst women is greater than men. Kinda puts a dent in your and others claims that Islam somehow represses women. Anecdotal evidence suggest that women who convert to Islam do so through their own free will and are quite happy about it.


    "I believe that much of Islam survives through illegitimate or unfair means"

    Sounds like sour grapes on your apart unless of course you have some data of your own to show us i.e. out of 1.5 billion muslims, how many of these are forced to remain and not question it ?

    As for the use of the term "HATER", have you read the latest diatribe from spencer's creation ? Christ the Mad One really goes off the deep end. writing about getting panic attacks from pasing a mosque......I mean c'mon, that sounds really unhinged to me.

    ReplyDelete
  117. Greenforest,

    Ah, no evidence of Muhammeds existence......I had you down as more thoughtful person.....bet you are salivating over spencer's new book eh.

    If you can prove your assertion.....go for it and knock yourself out.....hate to break this to you but history is against you on that one but it will fun just to watch you try. Do you honestly believe that such an exercise will put a dent in the way Islam is viewed i.e. 1.5 billion muslims will suddenly lose their faith etc.....good luck with that.....let me know how that works out for you. Just shows how desperate the "Haters" have become, especially spencer

    ReplyDelete
  118. @skouti

    Anecdotal evidence also shows that the vast majority of women who convert to islam lack tertiary educations, have myriad psychological problems, are obese, and all around socio-economic losers with self esteem issues.

    Anecdotal evidence also shows that male converts are socio-economic disasters as well. As for haters, there are many white supremacists who join your arab male power cult. So keep crowing about converts, needle-dick. (hey, if you can belittle Shakila with the misogynistic "honey" I can belittle you with the misandrist "needle dick." What's fair is fair.)

    However, for hard evidence, a Pakistani sociologist who also happened to be a jihadist for ISNA conducted a study of American converts to your cult that backfired on him. His research shows that over 70% of American converts leave islam within 2-3 of converting.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Stay classy as a HATER istabbul chick

    here just for you honey

    http://spencerwatch.com/

    enjoy :)

    ReplyDelete
  120. skouti says: "You could also add happy christians"

    Certainly ! I'm glad that you understand my argument.

    skouti says: "It does appear that the solution for spencer's creation is to find somwehere else to live."

    Why do you insist on your conspiracy theory that she's not real ? It makes no sense. By your own paranoid logic YOU must be a "Spencer's creation" too. ("Fake commenter" to reinforce and promote the cause of "islamophobia".)

    Of course emigration is the best and most logical course of action for an apostate like Liberated. I very much hope that she's going to do exactly that.

    skouti says: "She is obviously not happy with her lot in life and has a problem with Islam too."

    Islam is an acknowledged problem globally. Everybody has a "problem with Islam" de facto, in one way or another. This is indeed obvious.
    But you have no way of knowing if Liberated is happy "with her lot in life", or not. How do you evaluate happiness ? By what criteria ? Please do tell. (After all it must be easy for you to make such an evaluation of someone's happiness, since you've done it at least 1.5 billion times in the past.)


    skouti says: "As going to assume she has not even spoken to her parents about this or even spoken to her siblings which one would expect a normal person to do otherwise what does this say about her relationship with her family, not a very good one by all accounts."

    No. Normal responsible and independent adults gain knowledge about reality and adjust their worldview accordingly (by rational mental integration of acquired reliable knowledge into a non-contradictory system) without asking for parents' approval or for unqualified opinions of siblings.
    If she understands that 2+2=4, then it doesn't matter if her relatives have "faith" in "revealed truth" that 2+2=5 or 2+2=3 or even 2+2=^(%*%&%$*.

    ReplyDelete
  121. kafir

    "Islam is an acknowledged problem globally. Everybody has a "problem with Islam" de facto, in one way or another. This is indeed obvious."

    Just because you say it, doesn't make it true

    http://spencerwatch.com/

    enjoy!!!

    ReplyDelete
  122. Skouti.

    Problem will not disappear just because you deny it's existence.

    http://thereligionofpeace.com/

    Enjoy.

    ReplyDelete
  123. what a catter you are kafir :)

    ReplyDelete
  124. @skouti

    Your hypocrisy and hubris are very welcome.

    I love it when you hateful musloids show your true colours while pretending to be moderates.

    You don't need "haters" like us to defame islam.

    Misogynistic, hateful musloids like you defame it and yourselves without any help from us "islamophobes."

    ReplyDelete
  125. Oh, well... I'm a hardcore islamohater.

    I can't help it, since there's just nothing of any value in mohammedanism to like.
    It's the vilest, craziest and the most idiotic of all other mutations of "abrahamic, monotheistic" institutionalized mass psychosis. As an anti-theist I'm against all kinds of morbid apocalyptic evil religionism in general, because civilization on this planet isn't likely to survive if sane people don't succeed to neutralize all these monstruous death cults.
    It's all evil delusional bullshit and must be opposed.

    Merry "Götterdämmerung", everybody !

    ReplyDelete
  126. Kafir ibn al-Shaitan writes to "skoutl":

    By your own paranoid logic YOU must be a "Spencer's creation" too. ("Fake commenter" to reinforce and promote the cause of "islamophobia".)

    I thought of that too. We could go further and say that Spencer has created all of us commenters here -- and at Jihad Watch. But I dearly wish Spencer had created "skoutl" -- so that he could with a click of his mouse put him out of our misery.

    ReplyDelete
  127. By the way, in reading these comments threads here on Liberated One's blog, I've long since lapsed into my habit that for years has become routine for me -- when a long debate begins to occur in the thread between a deformed Mohammedan like "skoutl" and those who still have reason (like all the non-Muslims debating him), I simply stop reading "skoutl" altogether, and only read the responses to him by the others. It's much more enjoyable, still as informative, and not bad for the blood pressure that way.

    That said, I frankly pity those here who, long past the point at which it seems feasible, continue to regard "skoutl" as a human being (i.e., as capable of even the slightest iota of a glimmer of reason). Once the helpful pedagogical spectacle has unfolded (and by now you guys are pretty much repeating yourselves), it's time to stop addressing demonic entities like "skoutl" in the 1st person.

    (Personally, I spotted him nearly right away, and so didn't engage with him; and certainly didn't persist giving him the benefit of the doubt. Even insulting him is to honor him with more than he's due. He's our evil enemy, and he's demonic to boot, devoid of recognition of human reason and speech except insofar as it superficially serves the interest, if one can call it that, of the Satanic vortex at his core, a crater where once a human being dwelled.)

    The Hesperado

    ReplyDelete
  128. Exactly, Hesperado ! We are all virtual elements of Spencer's personal islamophobic conspiracy.
    Spencer controls the islamophobic Matrix !

    ReplyDelete
  129. Well, muslo-bashing and muslo-trolling can be quite entertaining sometimes.

    ReplyDelete
  130. skouti,

    "There have been various reports about the number of converts to Islam, though there hasn't been any empirical studies done as such."

    But overall, summarily, do these reports you mention (but do not cite) suggest that in the world, on the balance, that the number of converts to Islam is greater than to other religions or to no religion?

    If these reports aren't based on empirical studies, why should we afford them any weight?

    A couple of reminders:

    1. Your original claim:
    "...don't you agree especially considering the number of people joining Islam are far greater......explain that one ?"

    2. This doesn't answer my charge that, in the conversions game, hard-line Muslims cheat (see above), and, I will add, many additional Muslims fail to oppose these unfair practices and policies.

    "Apparently news reports suggest that conversion to Islam amongst women is greater than men."

    That doesn't address the issue, which referred to overall numbers not male-female differences.

    "Kinda puts a dent in your and others claims that Islam somehow represses women."

    Reminder: You're the guy (or one of them) who condoned violence against Liberated.

    I don't think I actually introduced that claim here, but yes, the Muslims who today implement the Islam prescribed in and inspired by the Quran, Hadith, and Islamic law do repress women.

    Your allusions to news reports do not put a dent in this hypothesis because, even if they were true, they may only refer to a limited sample in a particular region, or a nonrandom sample, and moreover you do not get into the reasons for the conversions (see next).

    "Anecdotal evidence suggest that women who convert to Islam do so through their own free will and are quite happy about it."

    I'm afraid anecdotal evidence isn't going to suffice for this type of claim. You can select your anecdotes, your opponents can cite theirs to counter you (e.g., women in the Islam world being forced to convert, Hindu girls in the U.K. being coerced into conversions, etc.). Let's also not forget that neither men or women are allowed to leave Islam once they've converted.

    I said: "I believe that much of Islam survives through illegitimate or unfair means"

    You replied: "Sounds like sour grapes on your apart"

    Pointing out unfairness is dismissed as "sour grapes"? Is that your attitude toward opposing injustice?

    "...unless of course you have some data of your own to show us i.e. out of 1.5 billion muslims, how many of these are forced to remain and not question it ?"

    I would estimate that almost all of them are forced to some significant extent. This can be inferred from the facts that
    (a) Muslims are still forbidden from leaving Islam,
    (b) Muslim children are programmed into the religion before an age [say, the age of majority] at which they can maturely question and weigh the evidence and assess the merits of various claims within the religion,
    (c) numerous Muslim countries have harsh and unjust penalties for apostasy and criticism of Islam (in addition to fervent vigilantes who wish to implement the punishments),
    (d) numerous Muslim countries have laws limiting the presentation of non-Islamic ideas and other religions (in the media and elsewhere),
    (e) as far as I'm aware, ex-Muslims and critics of Islam are in danger in any of the areas of the planet where there are significant Muslim communities.

    Perhaps there are some Muslims who happen to be on the continent of Antarctica, or in Iceland or Greenland, who have publicly announced their apostasy (to whom?)?

    Ah, but then there is the attitude promoted by the much-admired Islamic hero Saladin: “I shall cross the sea to their islands to pursue them until there remains no one on the face of the earth who does not acknowledge Allah" --Saladin, 1189.

    Some people cannot just leave others well enough alone.

    ReplyDelete
  131. replying to skouti,

    skouti: "As for the use of the term "HATER", have you read the latest diatribe from spencer's creation ? Christ the Mad One really goes off the deep end. writing about getting panic attacks from pasing a mosque......I mean c'mon, that sounds really unhinged to me."

    "Sounds unhinged" does not constitute an argument; simply calling someone a "hater" does not constitute anything intelligent.

    Reminder: You're the guy who condones violence against apostates who publicly explain why they left Islam and why they no longer accept Muhammad.

    skouti: "Ah, no evidence of Muhammeds existence......I had you down as more thoughtful person.....bet you are salivating over spencer's new book eh."

    I said there is more evidence for Liberated's existence than for Muhammad's, and there is no evidence that he was a prophet (if he existed at all), and no evidence whatsoever for Allah. I would add that the Quran and Hadith do make empirical claims, including miraculous claims, which are clearly not credible. The Quran is a jumbled concoction of Judeo-Christian elements plus Arab polytheistic lore and tradition (e.g., the hajj, the jinn, etc.), even to the point where elements of rabbinical commentary are pasted into the Quran in spots as words of Allah (e.g., see Q 5:32). Islam is adequately described as some kind of Judeo-Christian off-shoot, heresy, conscious post hoc concoction, or some combinations of these.

    Well, I'm not 'salivating' over Spencer's forthcoming book which delves into the issues regarding the lack of evidence for the legendary Muhammad, and I'm familiar already with the gist of the writings already available for some time on this, but I am looking forward to the social impact of the book and to the discussion and debate that will no doubt be provoked as a result. Surely that's not a bad thing, is it skouti?

    "If you can prove your assertion.....go for it and knock yourself out..."

    I don't have to prove that there is no evidence to support the claims that Muhammad was a prophet: There is in fact no such evidence to support these claims.

    "..hate to break this to you but history is against you on that one but it will fun just to watch you try."

    There is no direct independent historical evidence for Muhammad's existence.

    "Do you honestly believe that such an exercise will put a dent in the way Islam is viewed i.e. 1.5 billion muslims will suddenly lose their faith etc"

    Spencer's book being the exercise? Yes, it will make a dent, from the smallest being one Muslim who sees the scientific and moral problems with Islam and gets thinking about that and leaves the faith, to possibly doubts on a much larger scale.

    "good luck with that.....let me know how that works out for you."

    I don't believe in luck, and you should pass on your best wishes to Spencer, because it's his book.

    "Just shows how desperate the "Haters" have become, especially spencer"

    Doubting the existence of Muhammad, or questioning the historical veracity of the claims, myths, legends, etc., is desperate? No, it is just what we in the west have often done for at least the past several centuries, i.e., questioning the truth of claims, with no stones, even sacred stones, left unturned. It is the freedom to explore where our curiosity leads us, without the hindrance of the superstitious taboos employed by the powerful to limit people's knowledge and therefore their power.

    To advance the proper study of Islam, and to extract it from the quagmire of apologetic nonsense and stagnation that has held the field for the past approximately four decades, it will be necessary to conduct large-scale archeological investigations in Saudi Arabia, Syria, and surrounding areas, to discover new facts about Islam and really figure out how this ideology was put together.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Wow greenforest, you really showed your true colours there. You honestly believe that 1.5 billion Muslims are forced to stay in Islam and Mohammed did not exist yet offer no statistical data but want to dig up Saudi Arabia........let me know how that works out for you.
    Next you will be telling me the Crusaders were a peaceful misunderstood bunch who did not slaughter in the name of Christianity

    Let's get back to reality for a moment.......let's agree that Spencer's creation is two faced, not to mention downright hypocritical. She doesnt like her parents let alone love them, yet she still lives with them, enjoying all they provide for her but at the same time slates them. At the very least she should have the courage of her convictions, dig deep, find her spine and some balls, and come out. How old is she again? of course the first things she does is link up with a loon like Spencer , he who spawned Anders Brevik. Heard of that HATER greenforest? Sure you have. breviks idea of hating Muslims was to murder his fellow countrymen, go figure. Does liberated really want to be associated with Spencer and brevik.

    ReplyDelete
  133. skouti,

    It looks like from this latest comment you are not really processing the information which Liberated provided in her latest article (see "I have spent 35 years..."), supported by Ali Sina, and which I pointed out to you in the previous thread. You stubbornly persist with your initial belief, which was not based on a careful assessment of the information, and you ignore this new data.

    "You honestly believe that 1.5 billion Muslims are forced to stay in Islam"

    The vast majority of them, yes, because as I said a high percentage of the children are forced into it and then there are the hard-liners who threaten everyone else to stay in it, plus the widespread taboos and laws against apostasy and so forth. But tell me somewhere there are large numbers of apostates who roam freely and discuss their criticisms openly and with impunity and without fear of harm, and I will reconsider.

    "if Mohammed did not exist yet offer no statistical data"

    There is no direct independent evidence that he existed.

    Consider this point of comparison: There is more evidence for the existence of the man Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (d. 1908), whom the Ahmadis revere, than for Muhammad, whom they also revere. Now, there is no evidence at all for the spiritual and miraculous claims of these men, but it must be admitted that there is no doubt that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad existed--even non-Muslims accept that; he is a historical figure. In contrast, there is much doubt, confusion, and controversy over whether Muhammad existed. It cannot simply be said that Muhammad was a historical figure, unless we consider pious legends and myths to be historical documents--which we shouldn't, unless we want to make foolish mistakes.

    "but want to dig up Saudi Arabia..."

    Archeological sites, yes, for educational and scientific purposes. What do the Saudis and Muslim authorities have to hide? Where is their faith? Are they afraid of what those scientists might dig up?

    "let me know how that works out for you."

    Obviously a lot of diplomatic work is going to have to be done to bring the Saudis around (!), but eventually it will happen, not necessarily in the near future, but who knows. All it takes is a few well-placed western-educated "royals" to change things.

    ReplyDelete
  134. In a core Islamic text, Muhammad orders people burned up in their houses, for not coming to prayer:

    In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626:


    "Narrated Abu Huraira:

    The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr [pre-dawn] and the Isha [evening] prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama [second call to prayer] and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.' "

    See also:

    Volume 1, Book 11, Number 617:

    "Narrated Abu Huraira:

    Allah’s Apostle said,'By Him in Whose Hand my soul is I was about to order for collecting fire-wood (fuel) and then order someone to pronounce the Adhan [summons] for the prayer and then order someone to lead the prayer then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him, in Whose Hands my soul is, if anyone of them had known that he would get a bone covered with good meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would have turned up for the Isha prayer.' " [fifth of the five daily prayers]

    ReplyDelete
  135. "The vast majority of them, yes, because as I said a high percentage of the children are forced into it "

    How much of a percentage are forced into it greenforest ? Any statistical evidence to back up your claim, if so, then why hasn't anyone else noticed this claim of yours ?

    "Obviously a lot of diplomatic work is going to have to be done to bring the Saudis around (!), but eventually it will happen, not necessarily in the near future, but who knows. All it takes is a few well-placed western-educated "royals" to change things."

    uh-huh, or maybe if the west can give up its addiction to muslim oil first :)


    "In contrast, there is much doubt, confusion, and controversy over whether Muhammad existe"

    please post your evidence showing that Muhammed did not exist ? again if your claim is true then why hasn't anyone else looked at this issue ? It has been quite a while hasn't it and some might argue that the Islam Haters have left it rather late in the day. You would think they would be intelligent enough to bring this issue to the fore. Looks like they been beating themselves up quite unneccessarily

    Also I couldn't help but noticed that you avoided the issue of Anders Brevik....not a great advert for you HATERS

    ReplyDelete
  136. Islam closes minds

    From p.82 of the United Nations Arab Human Development Report, 2003:

    [In the Arab world] "The aggregate total of translated books from the Al-Ma’moon era [over 1000 years ago] to the present day amounts to 10,000 books - equivalent to what Spain translates in a single year."

    ReplyDelete
  137. skouti, calling people names, like "haters" is not an argument. It's just verbal abuse, a verbal assault.

    ReplyDelete
  138. In core Islamic texts, Muhammad allows his soldiers to rape captive women:

    From Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:

    Book 008, Number 3371:

    "Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born."

    Notice above that Muhammad did not say, "do not compel your captive women to have sex with you." He merely says it does not matter if his soldiers withdraw before ejaculation, because souls destined by Allah to be born will be born regardless.

    From Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459:

    "Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
    I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa [battle at which Muhammad was present] of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, "How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist." "


    Again notice in the above hadith that, in answer to his soldiers' queries Muhammad doesn't say "You must not force your captives to have intercourse with you." He says only that coitus interruptus, withdrawing prior to ejaculation, is pointless, because souls predestined to exist will exist regardless.

    Again in Sahih al-Bukhari:

    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:

    "Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
    We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] about it and he said, 'Do you really do that?' repeating the question thrice, 'There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.' "


    Thus Muhammad does not forbid his men to rape their captives, but merely says that it's better not to do coitus interruptus. His men were to keep going till coitus was complete.

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  139. skouti,

    Let me ask you this: If you found one day, as a result of your own researches, that you did not believe in Islam, would you feel safe announcing your apostasy in public and explaining the reasons why you left Islam?

    Remember: You've already condoned violence against apostates. You've said: "Is it any wonder such folks get beaten up when they decide to leave a religion, then start bad mouthing it."

    So you already agree with me that apostates are at risk.

    "please post your evidence showing that Muhammed did not exist ?"

    I said there's no direct independent evidence that he existed.

    Please post your evidence that he does exist.

    Here is one Muslim scholar who researched this issue specifically and reached the conclusion that Muhammad probably did not exist.

    "uh-huh, or maybe if the west can give up its addiction to muslim oil first :)"

    Muslim oil? You are now even claiming the oil is Muslim? That is funny.

    I'm not obliged to address every red herring, such as the Brevik issue. Establish relevance to Liberated's blog for this article and thread and I will address it. But not until then--otherwise we would talk about every issue under the sun. You can't simply blame all the world's problems on Spencer, Islam-haters, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  140. "Here is one Muslim scholar who researched this issue specifically and reached the conclusion that Muhammad probably did not exist."

    And there you have the conclusive proof, LOL. Based on that, we can all agree that Jesus did not exist either :)

    "I'm not obliged to address every red herring, such as the Brevik issue. Establish relevance to Liberated's blog for this article and thread and I will address it. But not until then--otherwise we would talk about every issue under the sun. You can't simply blame all the world's problems on Spencer, Islam-haters, etc."

    Hasn't stopped you bliaming Islam for all the worlds ill but I can appreciate why Anders Brevik would be a sore subject for you and your cohort of HATERS, after all here was a right wing loon who hated islam and saw his hatred out for the whole world to see. Brevik wasn't exactly a shining example for the type of loon who visits jihad watch etc. Is it any wonder that jihad watch is classed as a HATE site and is blocked by many companies/organisations etc

    ReplyDelete
  141. Sharia Adherence Mosque Survey: Correlations between Sharia Adherence and Violent Dogma in U.S. Mosques

    "A random survey of 100 representative mosques in the U.S. was conducted to measure the correlation between Sharia adherence and dogma calling for violence against non-believers. Of the 100 mosques surveyed, 51% had texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% had texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% had no violent texts at all. Mosques that presented as Sharia adherent were more likely to feature violence-positive texts on site than were their non-Sharia-adherent counterparts. In 84.5% of the mosques, the imam recommended studying violence-positive texts. The leadership at Sharia-adherent mosques was more likely to recommend that a worshipper study violence-positive texts than leadership at non-Sharia-adherent mosques. Fifty-eight percent of the mosques invited guest imams known to promote violent jihad. The leadership of mosques that featured violence-positive literature was more likely to invite guest imams who were known to promote violent jihad than was the leadership of mosques that did not feature violence-positive literature on mosque premises."

    ReplyDelete
  142. The Qur'an on "terror" and beheading non-Muslims

    Qur'an Chapter 8, Verse 12:


    "When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

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  143. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  144. I'm not a HATER or even a hater. Certain of the Muslims I've worked with have inspired me to love them. I'm just legitimately concerned about how Islam as a doctrine leads to widespread intimidation and suppression of free speech:

    Here, with reference links to news reports, is a very incomplete list of journalists, artists, writers, actors, politicians, and public institutions that have admitted to self-censoring in response to intimidation and death threats from Muslims.

    ReplyDelete
  145. I for one am proud to be an islam HATER. There is everything to hate about the vile, evil, disgusting cult. I don't just hate it, I despise and abhor it.

    islam in its entirety is a disgusting perversion that has no place in the modern world.

    It simply can’t go away fast enough.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Cgw, glad you came out of the closet son

    Www.spencerwatch.com

    Enjoy

    ReplyDelete
  147. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  148. skouti,

    "And there you have the conclusive proof, LOL. Based on that, we can all agree that Jesus did not exist either :)"

    Hey, you asked for evidence, I don't research that area, so I cited an expert who has examined the evidence. Some evidence that raises doubts about Muhammad's existence is cited in the article. A survey of that evidence will be shown in Spencer's book, which you know you can't wait to see.

    I'm still waiting for you to provide one bit of evidence that Muhammad (not just anyone named "Praised One," which is a title) did exist. Praised one? Which Praised One?

    Do you agree with me that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (d. 1908) existed? I think everyone can agree on that. But when it comes to Muhammad, you won't get wide agreement because there just isn't clear evidence that he was a verified real historical figure like Ahmad was.

    "Hasn't stopped you bliaming Islam for all the worlds ill"

    I don't; but we are talking about Islam's death penalty and other harsh penalties for apostasy, the lack of respect some Muslims have for the right to freedom of conscience and expression. Brevik doesn't relate to this thread.

    "but I can appreciate why Anders Brevik would be a sore subject for you and your cohort of HATERS, after all here was a right wing loon who hated islam and saw his hatred out for the whole world to see."

    I deny the assortment of charges unless noted otherwise. None of this is relevant to the issue of the rights and freedoms of apostates. Otherwise, establish relevance, then I'll address it.

    But let me point out your hypocrisy in using this term in these threads: Do you hate Liberated? Do you hate Robert Spencer? Do you hate apostates? Because you spend an awful lot of time attacking them. As I've noted repeatedly, you condoned violence against Liberated and apostates (and Islam critics) generally. Deal with your own violence/hate problem before accusing others.

    "Is it any wonder that jihad watch is classed as a HATE site and is blocked by many companies/organisations etc"

    Really? I've heard of Islamist groups trying to get it blocked, but ultimately they have not been successful, to my knowledge. Which companies/organizations in the free world still block a great and important site like Spencer's JihadWatch project?

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  149. skouti, have you read the kkkoran, ahadith and sira in English?

    If you have and you can still defend islam, then you are the worst kind of HATER.

    Do you believe that mohammed (pigshit be upon him) was the "model man", whose behavior is to be emulated FOR ALL TIME? That means that you agree that pedophilia, rape, murder, plunder, looting, thievery, genocide, and all the other evils that little mo, "allah's" butt-buddy sock puppet, perpetrated upon others is sacred behavior foe muslims.

    Oh, that's right, I forgot, you don't answer questions that might tend to incriminate you.

    From j_not_a @ JW:

    "...they [muslims, ed.] are increasingly realizing that infidels are reading their so called holy texts and that knowledgable infidels and ex muslims are disseminating the truth about taqiyya, kitman, abrogation and the disgusting, perverted, filthy murderous life of their profit moohamhead and there is no legitimate defence for the abominations of his behaviour and of their so called religion. We the people are on to them big time largely in thanks to the internet and there is nothing the muzlums can do to stop this. They know the jig is up so to speak and they are backed into the corner with no way out. So they lash out with indignant accusations of bigotry, racism, ad nausem because there is no refuting the truth of the sickening reality of the demon worshipping filth of their belief system."

    Anyway, it's clear that you're an intellectual lightweight. I notice that you can't take the heat at JihadWatch and never stick around for long. Too tough for you minimal argumentative skills?

    To my fellow warriors against islam: time to cut this troll loose. He has nothing of substance to say and we are just swatting at him as we would at an annoying gnat. He adds nothing to a genuine debate about the merits of this case; why continue to bother?

    PROUD TO BE A HATER OF iSLAM.

    islam will submit to Enlightened Western Civilization. Make no mistake.

    ReplyDelete
  150. ...and skouti,

    1. You should address Traeh's comment in this thread December 30, 2011 2:32 AM, which refers to the results of a study on support for sharia in U.S. mosques. What do you think of that study, which I think indirectly ought to raise concerns about the safety of American ex-Muslims.

    2. Also, I would like to see your response to Traeh's posting of hadiths showing Islam's death penalty for apostasy. I want to know where you stand on the issue.

    I won't respond to you further unless you address these two things, since it is wrong for you to continue ducking these relevant issues.

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  151. skouti,

    CGW says about you: "To my fellow warriors against islam: time to cut this troll loose."

    I agree. However, I will make one strict exception for skouti at least in my own case (I can't speak for others who don't want to waste time on him):

    You (skouti) must also address, this comment by CGW, which is addressed to you:

    "Do you believe that mohammed (pigshit be upon him) was the "model man", whose behavior is to be emulated FOR ALL TIME? That means that you agree that pedophilia, rape, murder, plunder, looting, thievery, genocide, and all the other evils that little mo, "allah's" butt-buddy sock puppet, perpetrated upon others is sacred behavior foe muslims."

    I request that you respond substantively to each of these charges, which Liberated has also mentioned in explaining partly why she left Islam.

    Otherwise, if your response does not meet this small and reasonable request, I will not respond further.

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  152. I just find it hilarious that retarded mohammedan fanatics have a nerve to accuse us "infidels" of being "haters". This is just rich: followers of the psychotic death cult of hate and genocide lecture us non-believers how to be ethical.
    Pffft !...

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  153. greenforest,

    you and the other spencer trolls are getting all very demanding......."you must do this, you must do that".....take a big chill pill with some Jesus Juice and relax.

    I do sense a little tension amongst the Islam HATERS here. Not sure why they would feel threatened by me or anyone else who questions the purpose of this blog and its creator (the hapless spencer). But there you have it. Even some JW trolls themselves have questioned whether spencer has created the liberated one.

    As for spencer himself, some say that the reason why spencer hates Islam is because he was rejected by a mulsim girl (chuckle, chuckle) Others says it is because his family got their butts kicked out of Turkey. He has 6-8 children, Lord have mercy on those poor souls. of course it would be hilarious if one of them converted to Islam....too funny

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  154. The troll is just that, folks. Not worth your time.

    He won't answer because he can't without giving away his true agenda.

    Let's spend our time on the TRUTH, not pointless, low-intellect games. This guy can't handle the heat so he constantly deflects and projects. You can't debate a mohammedan because they just don't have the mental capacity. This troll is no different.

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  155. "I was always fascinated with the idea of marrying a western non Muslim man who would love, honor and respect me as an equal instead of getting married to some clone of Mohammed."

    I am taken, but I wish you luck, there would be many who would be happy to have you :)

    ReplyDelete
  156. In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says Allah hates when you ask too many questions

    In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 2, Book 24, Number 555:

    Narrated Ash-sha'bi:

    The clerk of Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba narrated, "Muawiya wrote to Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: Write to me something which you have heard from the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ." So Al-Mughira wrote: I heard the Prophet saying, "Allah has hated for you three things:

    1. Vain talks, (useless talk) that you talk too much or about others.

    2. Wasting of wealth (by extravagance)

    3. And asking too many questions (in disputed religious matters) or asking others for something (except in great need).


    Note: the parenthetical insertion, "in disputed religious matters," is not mine. It's part of the hadith as available at the University of Southern California hadith database. To see for yourself, click the link at the top of this comment.

    ReplyDelete
  157. In core Islamic texts, Muhammad orders stoning:

    In the most canonical hadith collection, Sahih al-Bukhari:

    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 805:

    Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah Al-Ansari:
    A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle and informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and bore witness four times against himself. Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married Person.

    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 809:
    Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
    A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.

    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 813:
    Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
    When Ma'iz bin Malik came to the Prophet (in order to confess), the Prophet said to him, "Probably you have only kissed (the lady), or winked, or looked at her?" He said, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said, using no euphemism, "Did you have sexual intercourse with her?" The narrator added: At that, (i.e. after his confession) the Prophet [Muhammad] ordered that he be stoned (to death).

    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817:
    [excerpt from long hadith]Narrated Ibn Abbas:
    ...Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession...

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  158. Dear Liberated,

    I invite you to staringattheview.blogspot.com, a blog that looks critically at the Quran and Muhammad. I wish you all the best for 2012.

    ReplyDelete
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