First of all, I would like to personally thank Wisdom Hunter, Isaac, Quiet Dave, Gravenimage, Wheatington, Shayne, Urban Infidel, Awake, Usama, CGW, John K, Seanrobsville, MartinKonvicka, Talitha, Treah and last but not least, a very big thank you to Mr. Ali Sina for visiting my blog and for posting such valuable comments. As for people like Skouti, Stoned 7 and Slave of Allah, I really feel nothing else for them except pity...the same kind of pity I feel for my family, relatives and Muslim friends. I just wish and pray to God that one day they, too, can see light and have the guts to free themselves from Islam, as I have done.
As I have mentioned in my previous profile, I moved to the Middle East when I was 10 years old, with my parents and 3 other siblings. My dad used to work in a bank and retired as an Assistant Manager after working there for 20 years. It has been around 5 years since my dad retired, and he moved back to Pakistan with mom, and now they are happily staying in our ancestral home with my grandparents. My married sister also stays in Karachi close to my parents with her 3 children, whereas both my brothers are still over here in the Middle East with their families. As for me, I am a 35-year-old woman working in a bank and living in a very comfortable 2-bedroom apartment which I share with a smart dynamic & independent divorced woman. Since she is not a Muslim, I do not have to worry about my computer and internet privacy. In any case, she has her own laptop and I have my own. My parents are very orthodox and very devout Muslims but they are not fanatics, and that is precisely why I had mentioned in one of my previous posts that they might not kill me for apostasy but they will surely disown me.
So you see, I am very independent. I have my own privacy to do whatever I want, go wherever I want and read whatever I want…I drive a 2011 BMW X5 which I purchased in December 2010, so even financially I am pretty comfortable. I am not here to ask anyone for financial aid, as someone suggested yesterday. The only freedom which is NOT AVAILABLE to me in this country is changing my religion and announcing my apostasy.
This country where I reside is in the Middle East, but it is not Saudi Arabia, so the internet censorship here is not that bad. And in any case, I use a proxy (www.torproject.org/), which helps me bypass the firewalls set up by the local service provider. I am not a fool to buy these books by Amazon and get them delivered to an address. Most of the books I have purchased from ibooks online store, and I read them on my ipad. Some books, like Understanding Muhammad by the brilliant Ali Sina, were sent to me by the author himself, who was kind enough to email me the PDF.
Gosh, I don’t know why I have to defend myself, my existence and my apostasy over and over again. Why is it so difficult to believe that I am a very smart, independent, intelligent and intellectual woman who actually has a mind of her own?
I am requesting all my friends and well wishers yet once again to please ignore comments by Skouti, Stoned and Slave of Allah. Don’t you see that they are trying to divert the attention towards themselves? The best way to deal with these people is by completely ignoring them.
Cool, first again :-)
ReplyDeleteHi Shakila! Stay classy, young lady :-)
BTW Shakila, you DON'T have to defend yourself. The hidden motive of snakes like skouti, is to poison your thought process by subtle suggestions that cast doubt on every little aspect of your authenticity, personality etc. Ignore them... you said it so well: the best way to deal with these people is by completely ignoring them :-)
ReplyDeleteEnjoy your freedom! Don't let anyone rob you of it anymore, not even one second of it!
"The only freedom which is NOT AVAILABLE to me in this country is changing my religion and announcing my apostasy. "
ReplyDeleteIs that really your only gripe ??? you cannot be so sad as to be hung up on this issue. if you really feel that strongly about why don't you piss off to another country ? I think we all know the answer to that one......money.....tax free money....lets be honest if as you claim you live and work in the middle east (guessing it is Dubai) then you are on tax free money etc, so if you had to haul your ass then sweetheart you would get taxed to death anywhere else. Bet you would soon overcome the apostasy bollocks pretty darn quick, not too mention your irrational fear of walking past a mosque :)
"Why is it so difficult to believe that I am a very smart, independent, intelligent and intellectual woman who actually has a mind of her own?"
Could it be that we have yet to see any evidence of the above qualities. How smart/intelligent/independent/itellectual could you be if you have shack up with loons like spencer et al???
Look just to help you out try this site
www.christianmingle.com
Get yourself hooked up and for God's sakes don't mention this blog of yours because its a sure fire way to lose any hope you have of a sane life.
also check out:
http://spencerwatch.com/about-robert-spencer/
for the truth about your alter ego
Shakila,
ReplyDeleteHehe, see what I mean by skouti being a snake?
Stick the Quran up your ass and go blow yourself up already, skouti. :)
ReplyDeleteIf what you say about yourself is true, do continue writing; but in the name of God, stop giving details of yourself which can be used by jihadists to track you down!
ReplyDeleteAlready you have given away far too much.
Do you know about Molly Norris? She lives in a witness protection program, probably for life.
You're in the belly of the beast. If discovered, how will you run away? You don't have the same options as she.
Jihadists will look for you if you act like a muslim in name only.
They will look for you in Lebanon or Syria or Turkey. They will not hesitate to crush dissent, and you know that.
Again, please be careful.
I commend you for your courage. Please keep yourself safe. The Islamists are smarter than we tend to give them credit for, and they lurk about trying to uncover people they consider "infidels".
ReplyDeleteoh man, yeah the jihadists will track you down and rob you of your BMW X5!!!! Run for your life :)
ReplyDeleteWorth noting how consistently hypocritical spencer's creation really is i.e. she doesn't mind taking the mid east tax free money but doesn't want to abide by the laws of the land.
How two-faced can you get ???
"Why is it so difficult to believe that I am a very smart, independent, intelligent and intellectual woman who actually has a mind of her own? "
ReplyDeleteBecause you, apparently, still believe in gods.
skouti : f..ing hypocrite of the first order. Crawl back to the hell hole you crawled out of or your folks came out of before telling the others what the f.ck to do with their lives.
ReplyDeleteEhh? Isaac Newton and Max Planck believed in god... And Albert Einstein rejected atheism, without acknowledging a personal god.
ReplyDeletedar-schan,
ReplyDeletestay classy as a HATER. just for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7D_t2Udm78
skouti - you are the biggest hater on here. every notices that. you are pathetic little pee-bag.
ReplyDeleteThe liberator also thinks you are a hate machine.
ReplyDeletedar-schan did you like the you tube clip.....c'mon you laughed right :)
ReplyDeleteSee thats how Islam HATERS are dealt with in real life, give those PUSSYS a good slap and watch them run away :)
thats why these Islam HATERS troll on the internet, thay are safer here
There is something terribly stinking about your character - it must be all in Islam that refills your little pee brain with Hate. Go and suck on that for a moment before you start advising others how to live and where the f... to live.
ReplyDeleteDar-schan my friend, please ignore the troll, like Shakila asked us to. His tactic is to make nasty little comments left and right, and when you ask him to bugger off, it gives him an excuse to call you a hater. He's like a chihuahua who keeps yapping and biting at your heels; when you kick him away, he calls PETA :D
ReplyDeletedar-schan,
ReplyDeleteis it because spencer's creation kicked your offer of help right back in your face.....shame!!!
Hey Shakila,
ReplyDeleteDon’t worry about Skouti. Millions of Muslims have left Islam and he can’t pull out his head out of the sand dunes of Saudi Arabia to see what is going on. After 14 years they still think I am a conspiracy cabal.
Dear Souti,
Why don't you read my book and refute it? That would be a lot better than making up conspiracy theories.
Lets see - it took us less than three weeks to clean up the swamps of Islamic 'braves' in Afghanistan and Iraq. Islam is just one faked up piece of scheiss. All those turd head talibans - the bravest of the braves - couldn't run fast enough before their asses were set on fire in the rat holes of tora-bora. I was not that far away from the very place. You should have heard the pathetic excuses they were making when they were caught, both hands up. You guys are losers. If it wasn't for Bushes screwed up obsession with Iraq, the game would been over within two months. Pakies are little pussies, I guess you are one of them.
ReplyDeleteDear Skouti,
ReplyDeletePlease watch this and give us your feedback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6st_tFj6ouM
Oh and BTW, there's nothing wrong with hating islam... it's like hating nazism.
ReplyDeleteNever get tired of watching this
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7D_t2Udm78
Just look at the Head EDL Knob Tommy "am so hard, i just kept on driving after getting slapped" Robinson
Thats how Islam Hating PUSSYs get dealt with
Classic :)
Shakila,
ReplyDeleteIgnore these trolls. Forget them. Focus on your new lifelong friends, Happiness, Freedom and Liberty.
If the blog or the comments are dragging you down, walk away from it. In reality, you are already unchained from your former prison [Islam] and nothing any of them say here or think [if they think] matter one tiny little bit.
Come to America if you can. And if you're still feeling threatened, you can carry firearms, depending on which state of course.
Come to America, so you can see how prejudiced these lot really are. You really will need a gun then together with your sedatives, LOL
ReplyDeleteAli, thanx for posting the video link! Gotta love the comment:
ReplyDelete"According to Qur'an 69:44-46, if Muhammad were a false prophet, Allah would sever his aorta. Interestingly, when Muhammad died, he said he could feel his sorta being severed."
Also, check out http://youtu.be/7Gzyeo1Z1I4 showing islam and nazi similarities! :-o
Skouti mumbles: "she doesn't mind taking the mid east tax free money but doesn't want to abide by the laws of the land.
ReplyDeleteHow two-faced can you get ??? "
Ask all the fanatical criminal mohammedans in Europe if they mind living on welfare, get taxpayer-funded benefits, but hate the law of the land and demand Sharia ?
Seems that YOU are the real hypocrite here.
Kafir, yup you got that one dead right: skouti is definitely the hypocrite here! He accuses others of exactly what the mohamedans practice: sexual obsession, defying the laws of the land, milking welfare, spuing hatred. Hehe, you so busted him :D
ReplyDeleteThe more you learn about Islam, the more absurd it appears to any enlightened person. I think the best readable book on recent scientific studies on the early history is this one:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.de/Good-Bye-Mohammed-wirklich-entstand/dp/383919203X
"Good bye mohammed" is its title. Unfortunately, an English translation is not yet available. But, I think Robert Spencer is working on a similar book. Parts of the results are presented in this video:
http://bhigr.blogspot.com/2011/12/dome-of-rock-christian-temple.html
Kafir,
ReplyDeleteAre you still upset about your hero tommy "I get slapped by a muslim and shite myself" robinson getting royally owned. Gawd that must really suck for you having to follow a LOSER like that.
To make his miserable life complete, the Muslims are raping him and his country all week long.........shame!!!!
Bhigr, never mind if an English translation is not available, what's important is that it be available in arabic, farsi, malay and urdu. A while ago, aljazeera interviewed an islamic cleric, Ahmad Al Qataani, who was alarmed that in Africa alone, 600+ Muslims leave islam every hour. It would be great if that happened in Asia also!
ReplyDeleteMost of the nonsense that Skouti posts here is pure projection, from the point of view of professional psychology. It's just so blatantly obvious and he demonstrates it in all aspects: perceptional, interpretational, behavioral, emotional, etc.
ReplyDeleteI mean, this poor fool doesn't even understand how he's being played and used by other commenters ! What a tool...
Typical projection gem from skouti:
ReplyDelete"To make his miserable life complete, the Muslims are raping him and his country all week long.........shame!!!!"
And this is the same guy who whines here about "haters".
Liberated:
ReplyDeleteYou don't need to defend yourself. Remember this: all the good people in this world, the ones who really matter, are supporting you. The trash will try to accumulate on your doorstep, but ignore it.
I beseech my fellow warriors against the vile, disgusting ideology, islam: Ignore the trolls. They are distressing our hostess. Your owning them, however gratifying, is like shooting fish in a barrel. They don't have the intellectual capacity to handle us, whereas this courageous lady is indeed worthy of our assistance. Provide her with reassurance, emotional support and any information which may be helpful, and she will decide what to choose for the purposes of her journey.
All the best to you, Shakila. I have been on this anti-islam path for eight years, and you are very welcome to join it.
Can the evil not be banned?
ReplyDeleteMove to Israel
ReplyDeleteSteve, I believe so, but that would be up to Liberated and Robert.
ReplyDeleteFaithfreedom...
ReplyDeleteI have admired you for a long time. Seeing your post, I was motivated to go to buy your book, only to see you have pulled it for another edition :(
But, I will buy it when it's ready. Hopefully, it will be available in electronic form. It's much lighter to carry around a tablet and many books, than to fill my rapidly shrinking living space with yet another paper book.
Lesson for Robert: mention a book, get me off my butt, as I have been meaning to buy another book of yours.
Liberated: it's wonderful you can be intellectually free with the internet. The Muslim states of the Gulf which are still relatively benign are generally ruled by either a royal family or a strong man dictator. Democracy is simply not workable for Muslim states. I blame the US for blinding pushing its own form of government, to the detriment of the people who actually have to live there.
I believe you're safe as long as you keep your head down. It's wonderful you can have this exchange. I hope your country maintains its identity, and does not succumb to the siren call of mindless reform.
I wish all Muslims the best. If you can create freedom and prosperity in your own countries, I support you, and oppose any actions by the US which would affect any Muslim country detrimentally. Of course, being an ally of Israel, and taking defensive measures against possible aggression by Iran is not nation-building intervention.
Noooo, why ban them... why deprive ourselves of being entertained by a bunch of frothing mohamedans?? Imagine that Liberated may well live within spitting distance of the kaaba. Every step she makes every day is a defiant victory. No wonder they are going berserk :D so why shouldn't we witness their disarray?
ReplyDeleteSteve said:
ReplyDelete"Can the evil not be banned?"
We should track him down and send a Predator drone armed with Hellfire missiles to his location. That will "ban" him for good.
On the more serious note, no, I think Islam can not be outlawed in any foreseeable future, but certain efforts must be made to monitor and marginalize it's practice, actively confront and suppress it's backward anti-social doctrines and reduce the number of it's adherents in all civilized countries.
Trying:
ReplyDeleteBecause the purpose of this blog is not for our entertainment, but for the goals of freedom and self-expression of our hostess, as well as a forum which enables us to offer her support and information that may be of assistance in her quest.
If these vermin distress her in any way, they should be banned. They are not intellectually adept enough to offer any real challenge, in any case. At least two of them are British Paki youngsters.
I hear you CGW, but it would be a lot of work banning every nickname that the mohamedans might use to post here. The other option is for all posts to be moderated, which means employing human capital to screen and approve.
ReplyDeleteBut like you correctly pointed out, it'd be up to Liberated.
Stay blessed!
Dont know about the rest of you backward ass trailer trash losers.......but I find this fake blogger hugely entertaining, esp reading how you lot suck up to a figment of Spencer's hate filled imagination........classic:)
ReplyDelete@skouti
ReplyDelete"Dont know about the rest of you backward ass trailer trash losers.......but I find this fake blogger hugely entertaining, esp reading how you lot suck up to a figment of Spencer's hate filled imagination........classic:) "
Reading the comments, I think the only one who is really hateful, is you skouti. You actually display typical mohammedan behaviour pattern, which I call projection. They projection their own psychological dispostion onto their supposed opponents. You a perfect example of this. On the other hand, it is quite telling. If a muslim starts spewing completely unfounded accusations and conspiracy theories, he is usually just displaying the depths of his soul.
Oh I forgot: CGW, did you say some of the mohamedans here are Pakis based in England? As in, Pakis who live off the UK welfare system??
ReplyDeleteHAAAAHAHAHAHA how funny that they would be the ones acusing Shakila of hypocrisy for owning a tax-free BMW in Dubai.
Whoosh........that's irony flying past bhgir..........think about it carefully dude but don't give yourself a nose bleed trying
ReplyDeleteYou know it just kills the backward ass EDL crackers that the Muslims are jumping ahead of them in their own country. Even their sad excuse for a leader doesn't have the nuts to defend himself........man got slapped good n proper by a Muslim and what did he do.......just drove on......nice
ReplyDelete"I am requesting all my friends and well wishers yet once again to please ignore comments by Skouti, Stoned and Slave of Allah"
ReplyDeleteSorry I missed that. Don't feed the troll, alright;-) If I were you, I would simply block them.
Re: the comment by "anon.": Indeed.
ReplyDeleteFaithfreedom.org wrote:
ReplyDelete"Millions of Muslims have left Islam...."
If that's true -- and one assumes that astoundingly staggering statistic continues apace as we speak -- then we don't have much of a problem anymore, do we?
Hesperado;
ReplyDeleteWe will still need to eliminate islam as a socio-political ideology, to the extent that it cannot wield Earthly power, just as we did with Nazism. If it cannot be reformed to the necessary degree, other measures will be taken to ensure its defeat.
Rest assured that Modern Enlightened Western Civilization shall prevail over primitive, evil barbarism.
I saw youtube vid that gets skuti turned on.
ReplyDeleteHe is a waste. How do you earn your living troll to pay the internet costs? I guess some welfare system is supporting that - of course the hypocrite united and MoSlum Union are synonymous. The Liberater works and earns her living. The tax benefits is the state law. She is not scrounging like you and yours.
Hey Skuti, check out this link for a real man's debate - I dare you to refute any of it !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6st_tFj6ouM
BTW - Your lord of the lords were no big deal other than paedophile, rapists, murderer, liar, fake artist, sexists, hater, tyran...
Hesperado,
ReplyDeleteMost of those who leave islam would typically be the naturally peaceful human beings who eventually discover that islam is a murderous and inhuman death trap. But they have to remain silent for fear of losing their lives. The ones who continue to embrace islam are the fanatical religious brutes and it is because of these brutes that the apostates must remain silent.
Just look at iran, the majority of the people is sick of islam but they live subjugated by a ruling minority of religious tyrants.
Trying to follow Jesus,
ReplyDeleteThere's no solid indication that a majority of Iranian Muslims have grown sick of Islam. They are only sick of the current regime. They still don't realize what their real addiction is that they need to kick: Islam itself. Diana West amply showed reasons why we should be skeptical of the stubbornly popular notion within the anti-Jihad movement that Iranian Muslims are somehow different from all other Muslims.
Take a Breath on Iran
Iran's Protests "Not Meant to Be Anti-Islamic"
"Their Jail is Islam, and Changing the Thug from One Warden to Another Won't Set Them Free"
Blushing for Bret
And she wrote and documented much, much more.
I summarized some of the issue in my essay The Persian Flu.
Hesperado,
ReplyDeleteAgreed, there's no proof that a majority of iranians are sick of islam. Unfortunately I am not familiar with Diana West's work. But I do know many iranians who just want to live a simply peaceful life, believing in god without having to pray 5 times a day, without having their women wrapped up in black garbage bags, with the freedom to enjoy wine and music etc... that tells me they don't want true islam, don't you think so?
Anyway Hesperado, what I was trying to say before, is that because of the brutes and murderers that remain in islam, we still have a problem.
ReplyDeleteJust think of it this way:
islam is a pot of urine exposed to the open air. Over time, a lot of water molecules escape into the air and leave the urine behind. That only causes the urine to become more yellow and foul. It does not make the stench go away.
The solution is to flush islam down the drain of human civilization as CGW alluded to.
Trying to follow Jesus,
ReplyDeleteYour main points are fine and I have no argument with them. The crucial issue is the numbers: how many Muslims who want to be free are there, compared with those who are continuing to fanatically support Islam + those who are stuck as Stockholm Syndrome co-dependent enablers of the fanatics? Ordinarily, with any other ideology, I might be willing to put that latter category (the Stockholm Syndrome co-dependent enablers) among the hopefuls; but with the dangers that the innumerable fanatics pose to us, it's not worth the risk to hope that the Enablers will somehow cross over to us someday. That leaves, in my estimation, a very small minority of actual apostates and viably potential apostates. Islam seems unique in having a large number of people who may appear lukewarm but who are actual defenders of the evil system that is oppressing them. I think we make a serious mistake in comparing Islam to other social systems where such lukewarm middle-of-the-road types actually do present practical hope.
And when we fought WW2, we had to make some terrible decisions which we knew would likely result in the deaths of millions of innocent men, women and children (the fire-bombings of various German cities; the fire-bombing of Tokyo and the A-bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Islam presents a far worse, and ultimately more dangerous evil than Nazism and Fascism combined. We can't expect to deal with it in the decades ahead by expecting a mass magical event of millions of Muslims suddenly leaving Islam and joining us. Anyone who has read the history of 1400 years of Islam, and who has read accounts of those who know Muslim societies over the centuries, and into our era, would realize that the fanatical hold which Islam has on the hearts and minds of millions of Muslims is unparalleled by any other ideological disease in the history of Mankind. And frankly, I'm surprised by the naivete of Ali Sina (though he's hardly the only Middle Easterner or ex-Muslim who expresses such naivete); one would think he would know better, having grown up in and lived among an Islamic milieu for much of his life.
Hesperado,
ReplyDeleteNo we can't expect "a mass magical event of millions of Muslims suddenly leaving Islam and joining us." You are definitely right on that one, but my faint hope is that one day the vast majority of them will stand by and not want to be involved in any conflict that pit any islamic regime(s) against the Judeo-Christian world.
If my hope proves vain, then heh, what can I say, islam will have the dubious honor of having started WW3. And we the civilized world, will simply have to win it! I'm not saying it'll be easy - I agree that islam is more evil than Nazism and Fascism combined - but if war comes to us, then it does.
Just so long as the faint hope doesn't get in the way of the grim necessity. Sometimes it's difficult to discern where the line crosses; and sometimes it's only difficult for certain people (e.g., Neville Chamberlain vs. Winston Churchill).
ReplyDeleteCGW,
ReplyDelete"We will still need to eliminate islam as a socio-political ideology, to the extent that it cannot wield Earthly power, just as we did with Nazism."
I think Islam's a different case than Nazism, insofar as Nazism was a very recent ideology cobbled together artificially; whereas Islam has been possessing the hearts and minds of millions in various lands for centuries.
"If it cannot be reformed to the necessary degree, other measures will be taken to ensure its defeat."
That's a fine prescription, as long as the expectation of reform doesn't get in the way of doing what we have to do to protect ourselves. But personally, I'd prefer to throw expectation for reform out the window and just dig in our heels for the grim expectation of enmity and self-defense.
"Rest assured that Modern Enlightened Western Civilization shall prevail over primitive, evil barbarism."
I agree that Muslims can never conquer the West; we are simply too advanced and they are too backward. However, I don't think we can "prevail" in the sense that we should ever expect a world devoid of millions of Muslims. That's why I think that a global quarantine is the only workable solution to manage the problem. Perhaps after a few more centuries, in the unprecedented context of a global quarantine, Islam may die out; but otherwise it's not going to be a quick fix.
"First of all, I would like to personally thank Wisdom Hunter, Isaac, Quiet Dave, Gravenimage, Wheatington, Shayne, Urban Infidel, Awake, Usama, CGW, John K, Seanrobsville, MartinKonvicka, Talitha, Treah and last but not least, a very big thank you to Mr. Ali Sina for visiting my blog and for posting such valuable comments."
ReplyDeleteWhat am I; chopped liver?
Thanks for the shoutout, Shakila. Of course, in every religion (even false one like Islam), you will find many people who use that religion for nefarious reasons. Unfortunately, in the world today, the evil is mostly perpetrated by Islamists. Even us Jews have had to criticize and condemn members of our faith. But what I find most disturbing is the lack of condemnation among most Muslims.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, there isn't a Jewish (or Christian or Buddhist) majority calling for death of apostates. Because of that, I find you to be so incredibly brave and praiseworthy.
My question for you is this: Since you aren't exactly poor, and since you are in a country that allows women to drive and work outside the home, why haven't you tried to immigrate out. I realize it is a very difficult task. But your bravery tells me you are strong enough to try it. Surely, your connections to Mr. Spencer, Ms. Geller and others offer some support, should you try it.
Regardless, I'm praying for your safety and wish you all the success in the world.
I've been following this blog with some interest, and I have to say this post really decreased my sympathy for your "plight"
ReplyDeleteThe impression your earlier writings gave were of a poor, persecuted woman with no way out of her situation, who couldn't even use the blog herself but had to mail her writing to someone else to post.
That doesn't seem to be your situation at all.
I'm sorry, but driving a BMW, comfortably reading ebooks from an iPad and blog posting from your own laptop doesn't strike me as a horrible, persecuted life. It seems actually very nice. I bet there are many, many muslims worldwide who actually suffer persecution for leaving Islam without the comfort of playing Angry Birds from a state of the art superfluous article.
You ask:
"Why is it so difficult to believe that I am a very smart, independent, intelligent and intellectual woman who actually has a mind of her own?"
And the answer is: because you haven't shown that at all.
In an earlier post, you complained that you were being robbed of credit by suggesting you were an alter ego of Robert Spencer.
Credit for what?
For renouncing Islam, anonymously on the internet while still maintaining a very pleasurable existence?
I fail to see what credit is due for that. You're a coward and a hypocrite. If you really valued your conscience, you would sell your possessions and move someplace where you wouldn't need to hide your beliefs.
That's what a truly very smart, independent, intelligent and intellectual woman would do.
I'm not a Muslim, I have little respect for Islam or its prophet. But I reserve my sympathy for those who actually suffer for their convictions.
Everyone starts their journey to true freedom at different places. Its a divine intervention anywhere you are found by God Almighty. He starts with you, where you are. Don't be so quick to judge this woman. She has taken a bold step in her heart and life. Yes, many suffer right from the start, and some don't. But you are not the Judge e9. Let the Lord instruct and guide her, as He has began, He will finish His work in her.
DeleteHey e9b2a0ce-3356-11e1-81cb-000bcdcb5194,
ReplyDeleteWhat is your real name and address?
Come on e9b2a0ce-3356-11e1-81cb-000bcdcb5194,
ReplyDeleteWhat's taking you so long to disclose your real name and address?
I am giving you the opportunity to not remain anonymous anymore, should you be jumping at it?
I meant "shouldn't you be jumping at it?"
ReplyDeletee9b2a0ce-3356-11e1-81cb-000bcdcb5194? Hello? Are you there?
e9b2a0ce-3356-11e1-81cb-000bcdcb5194?
ReplyDeleteWhat's your real name and where do you live?
Are you a coward and a hypocrite yourself?
kot kot kot... :D
My name is Rafael. And it's irrelevant to the discussion. I'm not claiming to be a hero.
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to post anonymously. I have no idea why that meaningless string of numbers was posted.
Also, "Trying to follow Jesus" (I'm assuming that is your real name) I'm not even criticizing her for posting anonymously. I'm saying she's a coward for not daring to actually change her life even while having the means to do so.
ReplyDeleteAgain, there are people actually trapped in Islam without the ability to escape. The only thing preventing "Liberated" from escaping is her inability to let go of nice cars and Apple products.
-Rafael
I don't see where Shakila ever tried to be a hero (to use your own word); it's everyone else who is applauding her for her courage.
ReplyDeleteSo ok Rafael,
You want Shakila to openly suffer for her convictions.
You first:
You claim to "have little respect for Islam or its prophet." So why don't you walk into a nearby mosque and announce that?
I would suddenly get a whole lot of respect for you if you led by example!
"You claim to "have little respect for Islam or its prophet." So why don't you walk into a nearby mosque and announce that?"
ReplyDeleteWhy?
I mean, I just said so. On the internet! Perhaps I should open a blog and have a dozen people congratulating me for my courage!
Unfortunately, there are no mosques around here. Hey, perhaps "Liberated" should come to live here!
- Rafael
BTW Rafael, she did say she was intelligent, which is exactly why she didn't follow the stupid course of action you suggested.
ReplyDelete"Stupid"?
ReplyDeleteHow is moving to somewhere else where she can enjoy the freedom she wants "stupid"?
An intelligent, brave person would have the ability to move to someplace else and build a new life for him/herself.
- Rafael
Oh look what we got here! :D Lil Rafael who lives nowhere near pious muslims wants to dictate to Shakila how to be an apostate in a muslim country!!! :D Haaaaahahahahha what a kack!
ReplyDeleteRafael dear, have you had too much wine because of the new year?? No sweat, goodonya dude! Suddenly I like you a lot now (no need to walk into a mosque anymore :D)
Happy New Year Rafael! *HUGS* Take care ok?
Liberated wrote:
ReplyDelete"Gosh, I don’t know why I have to defend myself, my existence and my apostasy over and over again."
Let's forget about the Islamic trolls for a moment. Those of us among the readers who support you and are cheering for you but who don't like to accept claims at face value needed some kind of evidence to believe you really are an apostate as you say you are. Ali Sina and Robert Spencer have provided some corroboration that suggests this is not a hoax or a set-up, and that you really are an apostate. To me, the corroboration from Ali Sina is crucial, as is the endorsement of Robert Spencer. We readers, or at least most of us, don't know you. I am familiar with Robert's and Ali's work from over the past several years, and I believe them to be trustworthy. I respect their judgement enough that I would not expect them to allow themselves to be fooled, and that they would take some precautions, and that they have seen enough evidence privately from you to know with sufficient confidence that you are who you say you are.
Obviously you cannot reveal very specific personally identifying information to us; that would be too dangerous for you. We can only base our confidence in your story on our confidence in the others who are privy to your personally identifying information and who can testify to its veracity.
The details you provide in this latest comment do provide some plausible explanation in response to the doubts that some readers expressed. I thank you for that. Ultimately, though, plausible explanations are not necessarily factual. The credibility of your story, to those of us who don't know you, depends on what you've presented to Ali and Robert and on our confidence in them.
Of course, there are many, many people who don't have confidence in Robert Spencer and Ali Sina, and these people will not accept your story. Moreover, we cannot prove it to these other people without some additional independent evidence, which, if presented, would endanger you if you really are an apostate. I certainly would not want you to endanger yourself by providing further details publicly.
The veracity of your story, and that of other anonymous or pseudonymous apostates who speak out, is an important issue because there is a major "propaganda war" about Islam and Muslims in the West. In this propaganda war, the pro-Islam side typically attacks the credibility of any alleged apostates and Islam critics, and downplays or dismisses as "Islamophobia" and "bigotry" the idea that apostates are in any danger at all.
Robert Spencer is perhaps our best known and most important Islam critic in the U.S. He is a major defender of Western civilization. He is targeted by a largely pro-Islam mainstream media and numerous Islamist organizations. They are constantly trying to attack his credibility. If your case were a hoax designed to hurt Spencer's credibility--and I would not put it past some Islamic groups to try to do this by setting up numerous fake apostates with the hopes that at least one would get through--this might have a very damaging effect on Robert's work. If Robert's effectiveness were compromised by such an act of sabotage, our defense against sharia, jihad, and Islamization would be compromised. Hence, I hope you can understand the concern that some of us have. We're on the side of apostates. But our opponents know this, and some of them may stoop to use it against us. So we have to be careful.
Anyways, if the evidence you've presented in the two most recent articles were presented in the first article, this could have saved you the trouble of having to address this issue.
Man, for someone who is trying to follow Jesus, you sure are doing a piss poor job at it. I don't think He indulged in as many fallacies as you are currently doing.
ReplyDeleteThe most important thing to consider here is choice.
Let me repeat it again. There are many people who can't escape their situation. They don't have the money or the intelligence to do so. i feel for those people.
"Liberated" has a choice. She doesn't want to exert it.
While I think Rafael is a bit harsh on Liberated, he does have a point. It seems from Liberated's latest details she's shared that she actually wants to live in the city/country where she is, as she has many nice amenities (better ones than I have, and I live in the U.S.).
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, it might not be that easy for Liberated to get from point A to point Z -- i.e., what would it take for her to gather up her money, or a sufficient amount of it, pack her things, and head for the airport? Such a combination of activities -- unremarkable for those of us who live in the free world -- might be fraught with difficulties for someone living even in the relatively "moderate" UAE (which would be the best case scenario for her; other countries like Lebanon or Syria or Egypt being more debilitating).
I'm just guessing here, not being an expert in these countries. Perhaps it would be much easier for her to emigrate. And perhaps she wants to stay and have her cake and eat it too. In which case Rafael would have more of a point.
No Hesperado, from Shakila's pakistani background, plus her life in a ME country, it would not be easy to just relocate to a western country on short notice. It's a long process that takes years, I should know ok?
ReplyDeleteGreenforest,
ReplyDeleteWell put, with all the requisite gingerly walking around eggshells (I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically).
However, as I read your articulation and digested it, I realized something important -- with which you may disagree: The reputation of Spencer in this regard (and the potential of a hoax damaging that reputation) is, tragically, more important than the alleged veracity of an apostate's personal saga. This is precisely the kind of hard choice a society has to make, repeatedly in various ways, when at war. Often innocents get harmed. But the protection of our society is the first priority. And since we can't be sure, it's better to err on the side of caution. It all boils down to whether Spencer and Ali Sina have sufficient discernment to ferret out a potential hoax -- though I'm always open to an upcoming post by Liberated that dispels the nagging doubts that keep lingering (I'm afraid that the business about the bank job, and the BMW, and the smart independent female non-Muslim roommate did not allay, too-pat-wise: it almost sounds like Minneapolis!). I think their emotional investment in the "hopeful Muslims" who can be saved by us -- the new "White Man's Burden" as it were -- may be a vulnerable chink in their otherwise sagacious armor in this regard.
Rafael,
ReplyDeleteTrue, she has the freedom to leave the country and escape to wherever you suggest she could live with her apostasy 'freely', but there are other things to consider that perhaps are not important to others but is important to her: her family.
For many apostates, the main reason they find themselves forced to remain living in secret is the horrible fact that everyone around them, their loved ones, family, friends, might and will leave them. It might not be "dangerous", and certainly other apostates have it much worse, but it is something that affects the human altogether in a very negative way. Something many people are not ready to throw themselves in.
Is it cowardly? Maybe. But I see it as someone who is living secretly as a homosexual, having to 'come out', not exactly, but a analogy to understand how it may be. For many apostates, being killed is not their worry, but they know for sure they will be beaten, they will be forever spoken of terribly, and they will continuously be told they are supposed to, by Allah's rule, be killed. Even if the apostate is NOT killed, the fact that everyone around them believes they should be... would be devastating to see that in the eyes of those they love. It is very hurtful and a person can only tolerate much.
Why should all this hate, all this anger be there? Because, well, this is what Islam teaches when it comes to apostasy. Hate the sinner AND the sin.
None of this is to convince anyone of anything. You may continue to think that there is no reason to remain hidden, and that this is all out of cowardliness, this response was to explain that there ARE things a person worries about beyond being killed. Don't be quick to judge.
One more response to the relocation idea.
ReplyDeleteI respect the invitation to "come to the US!", "come to Canada!", etc... I understand that one can live 'freely' there, but one other thing to consider is: these apostates come from an entirely different culture.
To many apostates, the ME is their home, somewhere they never want to leave.
For this, many apostates are angry at how unfair it is, that they have to MOVE from their country to be able to live freely.
Why should that be the case? It is upsetting to see that the only way to live freely is to move away from home to somewhere entirely different, half-way across the world. It SHOULDN'T BE THAT WAY is what many apostates are saying.
Trying to follow Jesus,
ReplyDeleteDoes it not depend on the Muslim country -- some easier than others? In addition, the position and standing of the Muslim in question. She's not some fisherwoman living in a remote village on an Indonesian island.
Talitha,
ReplyDelete"For this, many apostates are angry at how unfair it is, that they have to MOVE from their country to be able to live freely."
Certainly, this is a factor. However, during the long dark night of Communist oppression of the Russian people (approximately 90 years), Russians and East Europeans conquered by the Soviets, desperately wanted to leave their homeland -- and many did, often dying in the process. And when the wall was beginning to come down, in the 1980s, thousands streamed out -- ecstatic to be leaving that hell. Sure, they may have been angry they had to do that; but there was no question it was the only thing to do, under the circumstance.
Now, consider that the Islamic Gulag is far worse -- more soul-killing, more evil, more perverse, more monstrous -- than Soviet Communism ever was.
The conclusion should be self-evident.
Hesperado,
ReplyDeleteFor the circumstances that I am familiar with, it depends first on the destination country. If Shakila tries to go the USA for example, the US ICE will do an extensive background check. That could take a couple of years and that's just a background check. Then comes the visa granting process. The USA has a stringent quota for each country. For the indian subcontinent, because thousands of people want to go to the USA, there's a long line and the wait is a couple of years or more.
Europe is not much better than the USA I am told.
Now that was just the immigration formalities, Shakila needs to think whether she can get a job where she is going. Can she work in a western bank if all she knows is shariah banking? :D
Hesperado,
ReplyDeleteWe are not living in an "Islamic Gulag", we are living in a free society (outwardly), we are able to get the best education, find the best jobs. In many cases, living in the ME is far more better (again, outwardly) than living in a Western country.
Naturally, no one wants to lose this stability in their life. Declaring apostasy may cost her her job, as well as her family and everyone around her.
The comparison is not just at all, as the Russians escaped to find a better life - if they were living a good life under the communist oppression, with food to eat, great education and fantastic jobs, would they have had to escape? They also escaped in communities, families escaped together - in comparison to Shakila, a lady on her own in this all. She will not be escaping with her family, she will be leaving everything behind. Her whole life.
There is no comparison.
Couldn't have said it better Talitha!
ReplyDeleteTrying and Talitha,
ReplyDeleteIt almost sounds like there are reasons for Muslims who don't want to be Muslim to remain in Muslim countries, while Muslims who support Islam are streaming out of the Muslim world by the thousands to emigrate to the West. Interesting contrast, there.
The West would rather have the Liberated type of Muslim, than the types who are coming here for the most part now, who continue to support sharia and complain about "Islamophobia" etc. (let alone who participate in, or enable, or excuse, or don't help the authorities concerning terror attacks).
Btw, Talitha, I would suggest that all those social amenities you describe (and which Liberated implied in her brief description of her life) in certain Muslim countries are all due to Western Colonialism and its after-effects (allowed to remain only because of Islamic dictators who made deals with various Western countries), and have little or next to nothing to do with Islamic culture.
At any rate, my primary concern is protecting my society, and all else is secondary and can easily become a hindrance to the primary concern.
Talitha "We are not living in an "Islamic Gulag", we are living in a free society (outwardly), we are able to get the best education, find the best jobs. In many cases, living in the ME is far more better (again, outwardly) than living in a Western country."
ReplyDeleteAgreed that the ME (UAE etc, not Saudi Arabia) is not an "Islamic Gulag", but who is "we"?
Foreigners (mostly westerners) protected in some measure by their home countries?
How do you define a "free society"? How do you say that even outwardly that society is "free" when 50% of the population, ie women, are under social pressure to hide their faces in public and under a legal code that values her testimony half that of a man's, an inheritance system that allots her half the legacy of her brother, a future domestic life in which her husband could beat her if she disobeyed him, make her share his attentions with three more wives, divorce her at whim, and get absolute custody of her children?
Shakila:
ReplyDeleteYou have access to Robert Spencer. Can he not connect you for advice and counsel to Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan?
It seems to me such women are your peers. They know what you think and feel. They have walked the path you only begin to walk.
Richard and Hesperado,
ReplyDeleteOf course, Saudi and Iran are different cases.
Take Dubai, for example. It seems like quite the free country, very 'westernized', though as we say, there is also a "true culture" within this "outwardly open culture".
There is some sort of double-standard on a social level, for example, a European living in Dubai can convert to Islam, become Muslim for years, then become an atheist or convert to Christianity - no problem. Even if they were living in a Muslim community and practiced Islam. The same for an originally Muslim person will not be accepted nor tolerated.
On a political level, yes, the Western citizen is of course protected. You may hear of Western citizens who were imprisoned, but not ME citizens. This isn't because ME citizens don't get imprisoned, it's because if they do, you would never hear about them. While Western citizens gets media attention due to their country's intervention.
Everything you mentioned, Richard, is exactly what I mean by "true culture".
"We" because I am also an 'apostate'.
Dear Liberated,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the call-out. I hope my words have provided some comfort. PLEASE take Anon's counsel seriously, don't provide too many clues to your identity or we may stop hearing from you before you want us to.
To all,
Please, let us not diverge into hate and name calling. Too often I see real argument degrade into infantile insult exchanges. Everything dealing with religion is going to be sensitive as we are usually dealing with people's fundamental understanding of what is right and wrong, good or evil. Let us, instead, support and sustain Liberated with words of encouragement and good counsel when we can.
To John K,
Tried to register on your site, but it keeps rejecting me as not registered when I try to log in.
To Shakila,
ReplyDeleteIf you read the Gospels you will see that Jesus treated women with respect, contrary to many in his culture.
I'd like to strongly encourage you to ask Jesus to direct you to the underground Christian community in your country. I'm sure there are some underground Christians. They will be able to give you the support you need to find a better alternative to Islam.
To others who have commented,
I don't really think it is very helpful to Shakila for us to use the comments section to have debates with one another. I'd like to respectfully suggest that we use the comments section only for respectful responses to the actual post.
Shakila ""We" because I am also an 'apostate'"
ReplyDeleteShakila - I didnt realise you were the author of this blog. A thousand pardons.
I salute you for breaking free from the bonds of slavery. Humans were not meant to be slaves.
Three cheers and wishing you a Happy New Year.
Talitha is correct. Imagine being in a tight knit family, especially a large extended one and suddenly losing all contact with them. No more support, no more calling when you're happy or you're down, no more being thought well of, no more birthday parties with the little ones, no more wishing your mom well on Eid. I can't imagine it. But this is what Liberated is facing and I'm sure it's torturing her. In one fell swoop everyone who was ever in any of her memories is wiped away for good with no access to them unless she's willing to put up with their harassment, disdain and abuse. What a choice.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest problem is that this is what Islam begets. This is what these people are steeped in so the only way out is to make the break. But as a human being that is not an easy thing to do. And no matter what some people think here, a Beemer isn't going to fix it.
Luckily she has Ali Sina as a supporter. He's been through it and came to find that letting go was worth it. The more she hears from people like him and ignores people like Skouter, the more peace will come into her life and the easier it will be to face this really unpleasant choice.
Wisdom Hunter,
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, a vibrant vigorous atmosphere of discussion on her blog gives Liberated a good taste of Western style freedom!
Rafael said,
ReplyDelete"The impression your earlier writings gave were of a poor, persecuted woman with no way out of her situation..."
I just went back and read her earlier posts. Nothing in them gives the impression of someone economically poor, if that's what you meant, Rafael. If you read poverty into them, you ought to go back and read them again.
On the other hand, if by "poor," you were not talking about an economic situation, but only meant that you got the impression from earlier posts that she was a suffering victim, but now you somehow know otherwise, I ask you how? Because she's lucky enough to have a nice car and a decent paying job? There are other kinds of suffering, like living in a totalitarian culture. You also assume that it's a very simple matter for her to leave where she is. That's a reckless assumption, yet you not only trust it, you hurl a series of insults based on it. There could be many large obstacles in the way to her leaving, obstacles of various kinds. And even if it should turn out there aren't, that doesn't dis-entitle her from criticizing the totalitarian context in which she was brought up and in which she now lives.
Rafael says: "I'm sorry, but driving a BMW, comfortably reading ebooks from an iPad...
Again, what about suffering based on growing up with a deficit of spiritual freedom, suffering based on living in a dictatorship? People of any economic background should be supported, not insulted, when they a protest totalitarian culture. You said,
"...and blog posting from your own laptop..."
You are not reading carefully enough. She is not blog posting from her own laptop. Not in the above post, and nowhere in any of her posts does she say she blogposts from her own laptop. She has made clear that for security reasons she does not order books to her own address, nor does she post to her own blog. She sends her posts to RS to put up on this site. She says that internet censorship is not too bad in her country, but she uses a proxy server. Rafael, do you know what a proxy server is? It makes it hard for security services to find out who and where the surfer is.
You said, "[That] doesn't strike me as a horrible, persecuted life. It seems actually very nice."
You seem to think that having a BMW and an I-pad is all there is to a "very nice" life. And you think anyone who has those has no right to criticize totalitarian culture.
You said, "I bet there are many, many muslims worldwide who actually suffer persecution for leaving Islam without the comfort of playing Angry Birds from a state of the art superfluous article."
Playing "Angry Birds." You now descend to insult. You say she is just playing. Again, this is based on your mistaken assumption that someone who achieves material comfort cannot suffer from growing up in and struggling to be liberated inwardly from a totalitarian religion. You are showing very little compassion or ability to put yourself in the shoes of another who has been raised that way and still lives in that context. And you lightly make the assumption that it's no problem for her to leave, and with that you jump to insulting her. Stop and think a bit before you insult.
Are you an American? Do you feel guilty about American material advantages and think that anyone else fortunate enough to enjoy material comfort should feel guilty and is impure and is not entitled to basic human rights?
You point out that some apostates from Islam have it much worse than she and are much bigger heroes than she. So? So she's not a hero, or she's a little hero, just an everyday person who has liberated herself from a totalitarian cult. That's worthy in itself, even if she's not at some arbitrary pinnacle. And living where she lives, she is taking a risk with her life. Another thing you seem not to have understood.
(continued below)
@ Quiet_Dave - Thanks for getting back to me. Try registering on the home page:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.freedombulwark.net/
(continued from December 30, 2011, 10:46 pm comment)
ReplyDeleteRafael says: "In an earlier post, you complained that you were being robbed of credit by suggesting you were an alter ego of Robert Spencer.
Credit for what?
For renouncing Islam, anonymously on the internet while still maintaining a very pleasurable existence?"
So she's not permitted to have any pleasure in her existence, otherwise she's not a genuine apostate living in a real dictatorship under a totalitarian culture? You seem to be one cruel dude, Rafael.
As for the question of credit, I think you didn't read carefully enough. Rafael, do you say that Liberated is not entitled to the simple credit of existing? Would you say she deserves to suffer manipulators coming on here and pretending she's not even real? Because that's what she was saying by wanting "credit," credit for simply existing, credit for standing up for herself and her individuality in a context of religious and intellectual unfreedom.
You are perhaps predisposed toward a misguided self-abnegation with regard to material comfort, and you seem to combine that attitude toward material life with an insensitivity or lack of knowledge about the deficit of intellectual and spiritual freedom where she is.
You say:
"I fail to see what credit is due for that. You're a coward and a hypocrite. If you really valued your conscience, you would sell your possessions and move someplace where you wouldn't need to hide your beliefs."
It's one thing to say something you haven't thought through carefully. But you should try not to use carelessness as a basis for insulting someone. After all, we know little about her and her situation, about her challenges and difficulties and responsibilities.
You said: "That's what a truly very smart, independent, intelligent and intellectual woman would do."
You might be intelligent normally, but are you sure you're comments above qualify you at the moment to say what an intelligent person should do?
You said: " I reserve my sympathy for those who actually suffer for their convictions."
Again, you seem to have some perfectionistic guilt complex you project on to her, that if she's not willing to be suffer material deprivation, and do so right now, well, what's she's doing for starters just isn't enough and as far as you are concerned, she should shut up because in your pure world, she has no right to criticize the totalitarian culture in which she grew up.
Your standards don't cost you anything, since you are demanding only that someone else live up to them. Things might not look so simple to you if you had grown up in Pakistan and were in her place.
I would challenge one thing Liberated said. She said the only freedom she lacks is religious freedom. If she is in the Muslim Middle East, that statement is mistaken. Religious freedom might be the only freedom she feels the lack of, but it's not the only freedom she lacks if she is in the Muslim Middle East.
Traeh,
ReplyDeleteYou brought out a lot of things I had tended to gloss over about Rafael's post, and for the most part, your critiques are cogent; however, I think you went a bit overboard in whittling his point down to a kind of rhetorical nothing. There remains a nagging sense of some cognitive dissonance about the lifestyle Liberated implies; and this also seems corroborated (unintentionally) by the supportive posts by Talitha and Just Trying, who imply they know from experience what it's like to live in a Muslim country as closet apostates, and yet they admit there are social amenities possible there -- and they thus base their defense of Liberated's disinclination to emigrate almost solely on her not wanting to abandon culture and family, rather than essentially and primarily on danger. Altogether, this implies a picture of someone who is not really desperate to leave, but wants to "have their cake and eat it too". It reminds me of those types of Catholics who constantly complain about their Church not being liberal or modern enough and being too oppressive, but yet they refuse to simply leave it for a more personally authentic route of religious expression out of some cultural ties, which would seem to water down the philosophical integrity of their objections to the Catholic Church.
"I've been following this blog with some interest, and I have to say this post really decreased my sympathy for your "plight"
ReplyDeleteThe impression your earlier writings gave were of a poor, persecuted woman with no way out of her situation, who couldn't even use the blog herself but had to mail her writing to someone else to post.
That doesn't seem to be your situation at all.
I'm sorry, but driving a BMW, comfortably reading ebooks from an iPad and blog posting from your own laptop doesn't strike me as a horrible, persecuted life. It seems actually very nice. I bet there are many, many muslims worldwide who actually suffer persecution for leaving Islam without the comfort of playing Angry Birds from a state of the art superfluous article.
You ask:
"Why is it so difficult to believe that I am a very smart, independent, intelligent and intellectual woman who actually has a mind of her own?"
And the answer is: because you haven't shown that at all.
In an earlier post, you complained that you were being robbed of credit by suggesting you were an alter ego of Robert Spencer.
Credit for what?
For renouncing Islam, anonymously on the internet while still maintaining a very pleasurable existence?
I fail to see what credit is due for that. You're a coward and a hypocrite. If you really valued your conscience, you would sell your possessions and move someplace where you wouldn't need to hide your beliefs."
Thank you........at last someone who also sees this fake blogger for what she is. Basically spencer's creation wants out of Islam but doesn't want to give up the tax-free muslim money/life style and all the other benefits. That is going to be one hardship too far for this tortured soul
Also how do the Islam Haters here reconcile themselves with the fake blogger i.e. on the one side you have known bigots/racists and on the other side you have a fake blogger who is in their eyes a "paki". Just curious if the fake blogger realises that her supporters are folks who hate people of colour with a vengence
Hesperado,
ReplyDeleteDon't be surprised if the dissonance you perceive is very real indeed! Not because the apostate is creating or causing it, rather it's because she is living it and it exudes through her writing. I think Shakila just wants to live her life freely wherever she is. That's my guess anyway...
By the way, parts of the middle-east are breathtakingly beautiful, despite the mohamedan curse that lingers in the land...
As everywhere today, there might be some minority that is racist, but the vast majority here merely object to core Islamic texts like this, and what they lead to:
ReplyDeleteOn page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he affirms that those who do not follow him will be "slaughtered":
Abu jahl said to them: "Muhammad alleges that if you follow him you will be kings of the Arabs and the Persians. Then after death you will be raised to gardens like those of the Jordan. But if you do not follow him you will be slaughtered, and when you are raised from the dead you will be burned in the fire of hell." The apostle [Muhammad] came out to them with a handful of dust saying: "I do say that."
From the essay "Communism and Islam" in International Affairs, Vol. 30, No. 1 (Jan., 1954), pp. 1-12, here is Bernard Lewis on Islam's inherent totalitarianism:
ReplyDelete"I turn now from the accidental to the essential factors, to those deriving from the very nature of Islamic society, tradition, and thought. The first of these is the authoritarianism, perhaps we may even say the totalitarianism, of the Islamic political tradition...Many attempts have been made to show that Islam and democracy are identical -- attempts usually based on a misunderstanding of Islam or democracy or both...In point of fact, except for the early caliphate, when the anarchic individualism of tribal Arabia was still effective, the political history of Islam is one of almost unrelieved autocracy...[I]t was authoritarian, often arbitrary, sometimes tyrannical. There are no parliaments or representative assemblies of any kind, no councils or communes, no chambers of nobility or estates, no municipalities in the history of Islam; nothing but the sovereign power, to which the subject owed complete and unwavering obedience as a religious duty imposed by the Holy Law. In the great days of classical Islam this duty was only owed to the lawfully appointed caliph, as God's vicegerent on earth and head of the theocratic community, and then only for as long as he upheld the law; but with the decline of the caliphate and the growth of military dictatorship, Muslim jurists and theologians accommodated their teachings to the changed situation and extended the religious duty of obedience to any effective authority, however impious, however barbarous. For the last thousand years, the political thinking of Islam has been dominated by such maxims as "tyranny is better than anarchy" and "whose power is established, obedience to him is incumbent."
...Quite obviously, the Ulama of Islam are very different from the Communist Party. Nevertheless, on closer examination, we find certain uncomfortable resemblances. Both groups profess a totalitarian doctrine, with complete and final answers to all questions on heaven and earth; the answers are different in every respect, alike only in their finality and completeness, and in the contrast they offer with the eternal questioning of Western man. Both groups offer to their members and followers the agreeable sensation of belonging to a community of believers, who are always right, as against an outer world of unbelievers, who are always wrong. Both offer an exhilarating feeling of mission, of purpose, of being engaged in a collective adventure to accelerate the historically inevitable victory of the true faith over the infidel evil-doers. The traditional Islamic division of the world into the House of Islam and the House of War, two necessarily opposed groups, of which- the first has the collective obligation of perpetual struggle against the second, also has obvious parallels in the Communist view of world affairs. There again, the content of belief is utterly different, but the aggressive fanaticism of the believer is the same. The humorist who summed up the Communist creed as "There is no God and Karl Marx is his Prophet!" was laying his finger on a real affinity. The call to a Communist Jihad, a Holy War for the faith -- a new faith, but against the self-same Western Christian enemy -- might well strike a responsive note."
@Traeh
ReplyDeleteThanks for your reply. I wish I could have more time to reply, but unfortunately, I don't. It was a well-constructed reply and I might come back to it later.
My reaction to this blog is based mainly on what I read in several news sources. Pain, suffering, oppression and death in many horrible countries under totalitarian Islamic regimes.
In the face of that, what "Liberated" is going through doesn't seem to be a miserable existence, nor one particularly worthy of attention.
There is one thing I want to be clear about:
"she has no right to criticize the totalitarian culture in which she grew up."
I never said anything remotely like that.
Totalitarian cultures and regimes should be criticized no matter who is doing it, but that seems to be only part of this blog. Half the posts have been about that while the other half are about how much sympathy we should give to her.
There is something off about that. I'm not questioning her existence, by the way, I think she's real and I'm taking everything she says at face value.
-- Rafael
skuti : pee-brain: let me simplify what was discussed for your benefit: she left Islam. she wants to announce that and she needs to be rid of Islam FOREVER - did you get that? In order to do that she need to leave the country and live in some place else which is thousand miles away; she is NOT fake; she needs to leave her family and friends for the rest of her life, because of f...ing ISLAM - the evilest of the evil cults. If she belonged to any other religion she didn't need to face any of this crap.
ReplyDeleteIt's clear you see ISLAM is EVIL - you are here to make sure that evil and the threats persist. You are evil bastard to put it in a polite sense of the words. Go back to pakistan - the Evilstan. She wants to live like a normal human being. She has the God given right to live free in this world- what do you know about these things? Just go away and leave her alone. She has her nose full from evil Islamists like you.
I save you posting, yes I am a "... HATER" - ISLAM HATER. I am proud of it. It needs to be defeated well and good.
ReplyDeleteYes, I saw that youtube vid - that turns you on. Do you sit and watch it to get a high? You live a miserable existence. A Pakistani guy slaps a guy while he is sitting in a driver seat of a car- what's a big deal? The white guy proved his point that muslim will hit him. The moron slapped him. He was defenceless. If he did that in my neck of the woods, that bag of scheiss would been blown away and splattered all over the street. You would have enjoyed watching that, right?
In my view you need to leave Islam more than anybody else, because it making you talk like an idiot - perhaps you are a naturally born that way - you should go out more and get fresh air to clear up those messed up neurons, if that is possible - bye bye, I got to head to work. I will vote anyone in if they promise to stop welfare funds for roaches like Skuti.
Rafael, fair enough. Sorry if I misrepresented your views in any way.
ReplyDeleteSorbonne linguist finds Islam's core texts the most aggressive against other groups
ReplyDeleteTina Magaard is a linguist who got her Ph.D. in Intercultural Communication from the Sorbonne, and did a three-year study of the original texts of the world's ten largest religions. One of her findings was that Islam's core texts are the most aggressive against other groups. http://jp.dk/indland/article223091.ece
"A Pakistani guy slaps a guy while he is sitting in a driver seat of a car- what's a big deal?"
ReplyDeleteNo big deal, the pratt who got slapped was the LOSER called tommy robinson leader of the english defence league. after that display he should rename as the english pussy league. robinson like you dar-schan is all talk and no action. robinson got dealt with by one muslim. why didn't robinson fight the muslim 1 on 1 ? fight like like a man but no robinson got all mouthy, got slapped and then ran away like the coward he is.
Trying to follow Jesus,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your reply. I can understand what you're saying. And I realize that the decision to leave one's homeland and family is very hard and something I have no experience of having to do, so I can't prescribe it as though it were easy. Nevertheless, as I said, hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, have had to flee Communism (and fled Nazism). There are refugees who have to flee all the time in history, not just from Islam, but from other evils. I guess Liberated falls into a special category of person who is not desperate and doesn't even want to flee, and only wants her otherwise nice existence to be better and without the one bad aspect, that she can't publically avow her feelings.
Bottom line: If she can flee, then she should flee -- unless her life isn't that bad. If it isn't that bad, then Islam isn't that bad. And yet, she's living a nightmare supposedly, where she can't be herself in public, or risk being horribly lynched or murdered. But -- it's not bad enough to flee. Can someone please make this equation fit?
Its like being an actor or actress everywhere she goes. She has to play the part of a Muslim, but in her heart she isnt one. That scene would evidently drive you crazy. It would be impossible to keep up dont you think? She has no vocal voice with her family, friends and workers around her. She would constantly have to be silent, or worse pretend she was one of them when in truth she wasnt. That is no way to live. She will burn out evidently, and have to finally get off that fence. Its leaving all behind, and going totally forward into a new life and way. When I become a Christian, I had to leave my family loyalties, to follow Jesus. My family didnt exactly forsake me totally, but I couldnt talk about my new found faith with them. I prayed, walk with Jesus daily, and saw them finally turn around, commit their lives to Jesus Christ and embrace faith in Him. That was the greatest day of my life here on planet earth. But because I live in a civilized, free society, I was never in danger of death for believing in another faith, as this woman is. Islam is pure evil. She will evidently struggle with this issue, and she is in my prayers.
DeleteI don't usually reveal personal details in these discussion forum or blog comments sections, but I might as well now.
ReplyDeleteI live in the U.S., with the advantages of intellectual freedom and freedom of lifestyle (though I haven't had to test the limits of PC MC: if I had a political or show business career, I would not be free to condemn Islam, for example, without losing my career), which is a wonderful thing, a precious thing whose value cannot be quantified. However, financially, I am very poor; I'm probably poorer than everyone else here, nearly living on the poverty level as defined in the U.S. In addition, I have been vexed by a terrible physical disability for the past 9 months, a neck and upper back spasm that has made my quality of life and ability to work extremely uncomfortable, with daily pain and discomfort, and every activity I used to enjoy is now fraught with discomfort. Sleep has been bad nearly every night, some nights worse than others. I have no medical insurance, and getting medical relief for this has been a very stressful process these months, only making my situation worse -- made even worse on top of that by the doctors I have managed to see (through various social charity programs) unwilling to prescribe the one medication that helps me, just because it is a class of medicine that is considered addictive.
Why am I telling you all this? I don't know. Just had to get it off my chest. Yesterday was my worst day physically, and my sleep was so bad I woke up at 3 am, after sleeping about 4 hours. And now it's almost 4 am, and I'm afraid of going back to sleep because my neck spasm and contortion are so bad.
But at least I don't live in a land ruled by Muslims, with Muslim neighbors all around me, and Muslim brothers living in my city who would kill me if I announced that I had abandoned Islam.
Now why again does Liberated want to be with her brothers who live in her city, if they would kill her? Why would Liberated want to remain geographically in the general vicinity of her family (though apparently thousands of miles from wherever she is now, and Pakistan where her mother and father are, right?), if her mother and father, who "are very orthodox and very devout Muslims but they are not fanatics" and who "might not kill" her (!) would likely countenance her murder by her brothers? These details make sense, if there is an element of Stockholm Syndrome going on -- which is not merely a condition of Muslims who enable Islam, but also of those in various stages of apostasy who continue to enable the monstrous evil they know is oppressing them.
When you have a BMW X5, but not be able to shout your apostate heart out in public, how bad can your life be ? Bad enough to start a dubious blog but not much else it appears. You begin to see why this tale doesn't quite add up.
ReplyDelete"if I had a political or show business career, I would not be free to condemn Islam, for example, without losing my career),"
ReplyDeleteWith free speech comes responsibilty.....oh the irony of it. you don't need to have a show to espouse your extreme views Hesperado. Why are you afraid of speaking your mind in the USA ? you stated you have freedom and it cannot be quantified yet you seem awfully afraid your views outside of the inernet......how odd
"But at least I don't live in a land ruled by Muslims,"
Not yet......how do you feel about a mooslim being the president of the united states ? spencer/geller seem to think that Obama is a muslim.
FYI.....if you were living in Dubai, healthcare is second to none and you would be better looked after than you are in the USA. you wouldn't have to worry about medical insurance etc. Then again you have liberty and a poor quality of life.
I must clear something out: I am not the author of this blog. The author is Shakila, I am Talitha.
ReplyDeleteI understand Rafael's point. Though I greatly respect Robert Spencer and Ali Sina, I think there might be some misunderstanding among their readers. The whole 'fight against Islamism', I respect, but the 'threat' is not only death.
Unfortunately, the readers seem to think that the only penalty is death, even though with many apostates, there are other 'threats' awaiting them.
Sometimes it's important to show many different types of 'threats', death is a big threat, of course, but so is being alive but being disowned by the closest people to you, feeling hatred all around you, being seen as 'worthy of death'. Receiving messages from 'anonymous people' saying "We will rape you, b!tch", "we will kill you" (even if it was not carried out) is a threat. Losing all your friends. Losing your job. It's all terrible. It's all unfair.
All this because of your religious status.
As an apostate (and I very much dislike this label) myself, I would like to say that I disagree with the idea being presented that the ME is an evil place lurking with murderers inspired by Islam. This is absolutely not the case.
But at the same time, I don't see that anyone has the right to say: "You won't be killed? Then why the heck are you complaining!"
Of course death has been spoken of because it is real, there are apostates who have been killed by their families or tribes for committing what they considered a sin. And most apostates think of that at first: I will be killed.
This is what Shakila thought too.
It's very kind of everyone who suggested that she 'leave right this instance to the land of the free!' - but honestly, do you think it's really that easy? It's a kind, thoughtful suggestion, but it is not realistic at all.
Hesperado,
ReplyDeleteYou might have been talking to another commentator about it, but I read what you have been going through in the past year and I am very sorry to hear that, I hope you feel better today. :-(
Imagine that you were in Shakila's place with that, though, and you had a support system around you: emotionally, financially, but you knew that you would lose it all once you admit you are an apostate?
Sometimes it's simply wanting to live in a secure environment (you might sneer at this, but let me explain): While she remains silent about her apostasy, everything will be 'normal' around her.
Is she ready to have her life go upside down? Maybe not, that's why she's still living secretly.
At the same time, it angers her that the only way to have everything remain "stable" is to live a double-life.
No one wants ot be alone.
skouti said...
ReplyDelete[after quoting me:] "if I had a political or show business career, I would not be free to condemn Islam, for example, without losing my career),"
With free speech comes responsibilty.....oh the irony of it. you don't need to have a show to espouse your extreme views Hesperado.
Of course, skoutl doesn't see the full picture. In the U.S., as in the entire West, if you have a show business or news or academic career (or many other types of career too) -- you CAN condemn Christianity to your heart's content, and nothing will happen to your career. Yes, there is the one exception of a political career, where the politicians have to be careful lest they lose Christian voters. But the fact remains that in all other realms of life, in the West you can mock, criticize or condemn Christianity without fear of damaging your career -- but you CANNOT do the same about Islam. A free society should allow the mocking, criticism and condemnation of any and all ideas and ideologies, without having to fear any repercussions -- other than your fellow citizens expressing in words their DISAGREEMENT with your opinion. This is the ideal of the West, which has taken centuries to evolve, through lots of conflict, sweat blood and tears. And now, because of the dominance of PC MC in our Western societies, we have to tiptoe around Islam for fear of Muslims exploding, and out of a misguided, benighted fear of being "bigoted" merely because Muslims are perceived to be an "ethnic" people belonging to a wonderfully diverse tapestry of "ethnic" cultures.
I just wrote:
"...because of the dominance of PC MC in our Western societies, we have to tiptoe around Islam for fear of Muslims exploding..."
One example of this, Jihad Watch reported on, back in June of 2010: the famous magicians/comedians "Penn and Teller" were interviewed by The Las Vegas Weekly and admitted they are afraid to mock Muslims, but have no fear of mocking Christians. Spencer didn't make this up out of thin air, as skoutl would have it. Spencer's source was the horse's mouth -- Penn Gillette himself, in an interview (which I just linked above):
The interviewer asked Penn Gillette:
Are there any groups you won't go after?
Gillette answered:
"...we haven't tacked Islam because we have families."
Interviewer:
Meaning, you won't attack Islam because you're afraid it'll attack back
"... Right, and I think the worst thing you can say about a group in a free society is that you're afraid to talk about it--I can't think of anything more horrific."
Interviewer:
You do go after Christians, though ...
"Teller and I have been brutal to Christians, and their response shows that they're good fucking Americans who believe in freedom of speech. We attack them all the time, and we still get letters that say, "We appreciate your passion. Sincerely yours, in Christ." Christians come to our show at the Rio and give us Bibles all the time. They're incredibly kind to us."
You see? Penn and Teller are "fucking brutal" to Christians in terms of mocking them in their comedy shows (from which, incidentally, they make lots of money, making them millionaires) -- and how do Christians respond? By being "incredibly kind" to them. A stark contrast to the pathological culture of Islam, which breeds innumerable murderous fanatics, about which Penn and Teller are all too aware, and of which they have to take care, and precautions.
Hesperado,
ReplyDeleteEveryday on the internet, folks are mocking one religion or another to their hearts content. As for Christianity bearing the brunt of this mockery, is that a problem for Christians to address or not? Islam chooses to defend itself. Christianity should do the same. The fact that it chooses not to is its problem.
Thanks Talitha.
ReplyDeleteI understand what you're saying. While Islamic societies are not uniformly berserk with murderous fanatics running amok 24/7, and there remain pockets of stability and semblances of normalcy, nevertheless, as I'm sure you know, overall Islam is breeding innumerable fanatics who are increasingly trying to mass-murder random people in the West (and occasionally, horrifically, succeeding -- e.g., 911, 7/7, Madrid, Fort Hood). From everything we know, we must assume such fanatics continue to plot worse attacks, and are doing everything they can to lay the ground for their success in the future, including biological, chemical, nuclear attacks, or some other horrible means we haven't predicted yet. And since we can't tell which Muslims are among them, and which Muslims are not, it creates an incredibly dangerous and unpredictable safety problem for the decades ahead. This dire and metastasizing situation in the West is only exacerbated by the increasing number of Muslims in our midst, coming here through immigration and moving around at liberty because of our social freedoms -- plus all the Muslims through the dominance of our culture our PC MC given incredible access and influence to various places and institutions (nearly every Western country has Muslims in the police forces, fire departments, hospitals, even our intelligence organizations and armies (Muslims in the FBI, or in England in MI-5, etc.), as well as in political office and academe, not to mention nuclear plants, energy plants, water supply plants, food service industry, etc.).
This is to me the larger context in which I have to fit Liberated's personal saga. Unfortunately, her saga fits into that, whether she wants it to, or not -- and that's due to the disease which her parents and brothers continue to support and enable.
skoutl still doesn't get it (of course).
ReplyDeletePenn Gillette admires Christians for the way they behave, and he's right.
Christians don't have to defend themselves from comedians mocking them. Being mature and reasonable people, the vast majority of Christians know the wisdom of the old saying "sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me".
But they do have to help defend themselves and their societies from innumerable Muslims plotting random terror attacks.
"I'm sure you know, overall Islam is breeding innumerable fanatics who are increasingly trying to mass-murder random people in the West (and occasionally, horrifically, succeeding -- e.g., 911, 7/7, Madrid, Fort Hood). From everything we know, we must assume such fanatics continue to plot worse attacks, and are doing everything they can to lay the ground for their success in the future, including biological, chemical, nuclear attacks, or some other horrible means we haven't predicted yet. And since we can't tell which Muslims are among them, and which Muslims are not, it creates an incredibly dangerous and unpredictable safety problem for the decades ahead. This dire and metastasizing situation in the West is only exacerbated by the increasing number of Muslims in our midst, coming here through immigration and moving around at liberty because of our social freedoms -- plus all the Muslims through the dominance of our culture our PC MC given incredible access and influence to various places and institutions (nearly every Western country has Muslims in the police forces, fire departments, hospitals, even our intelligence organizations and armies (Muslims in the FBI, or in England in MI-5, etc.), as well as in political office and academe, not to mention nuclear plants, energy plants, water supply plants, food service industry, etc.)."
ReplyDeleteThis kinda sums up the mentality of the Islamphobes. How can anyone argue rationally with the above statement ? I challenge anyone to try.
I definitely can argue in favor of his comments. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. Islam calls for violence and a total take over of the world. You justify your violence against others using your Koran directives. You believe this is what God Almighty is calling you to, which seems right in your mind. The fruit of your faith in this way, is 911, 7/7, Madrid, Fort Hood, etc, etc. etc. all over this world. Violence and death is the fruit.
DeleteHesperado,
ReplyDeleteI am sorry for your suffering. I will pray for you to find relief from your pain. Jesus is able to do this for you, either through leading you to someone who can help you financially/medically, or by a healing miracle.
Also, I agree with what you are saying about the value of vigorous discussion. At the same time, out of respect for Shakila, I hope that posters who have genuine good will towards Shakila can be wise enough to respect her request not to "take the bait" offered by a few individuals who just seem to want to use the comments section to discredit Shakila's testimony.
"How can anyone argue rationally with the above statement ?" - exactly! What you read is not Islamphobia (incidentally, the word doesn't exist in English dictionaries!) but the real facts about Islam. Which sentence do you refute that you imagine it to be fictional? Another point, we aint frightened of Islamisists, as you may be imagining. We don't give a rats ass about them and people like you. They are a bunch of misfits, trying to destroy our society. Everyone is aware of that. They keep our slammers fully occupied. They have not much future or desire to contribute to the society they live in. Everyone is wary of them. Nobody trust them. They live in our society on welfare cheques.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone should be worried, it is the Muslims. It is our society. We run it. We decide whether you can be trusted. You and yours have a problem right here scuti. Did you get that? We have jobs and future. A change of government can fix Muslims in a heart beat. More we become independent of arab oil, the less the camel abusers will have influence. Your days are numbered, which ever way you look at it.
Happy New Year - like I posted earlier, just chill out and get some fresh air.
Off-topic .... but I need HELP. How do you folks manage to use italics, bold, hypertext urls, etc in your comments.
ReplyDeleteThx for you help!
Hesperado - I am really sorry to read about your situation and condition.
ReplyDeleteLiberated: as a wise man once said, "you are the salt of the Earth." Your tiny little action (in a global context) affects us all in a very positive way!
ReplyDeleteHow do you folks manage to use italics, bold, hypertext urls, etc in your comments???
ReplyDeletehere you have it -
http://www.hyperlinkcode.com/make-hyperlink.php
Hi, Liberated - I am pretty sure you have thought really hard about your situation, unless you can handle some quantum changes in your life style, a lot may not be that pleasant and easy, like a complete cut-off with your family and current friends, you will risk your life and the life of any contacts you'll keep. Islam is more brutal and bigger than Mafia but basically runs on the same principles, terror.
ReplyDeleteIts the same the world over, when you want to leave a gang of bad guys, they make plans to do you harm, and in most cases they have no mercy.
"We aint frightened of Islamisists"
ReplyDeleteAll evidence to the contrary, LOL
Just ask your hero tommy "I got slapped by a Muslim and it went viral on YouTube" Robinson if he shites himself at the sight of a Muslim
"Its our society. We run it."
The only thing you have been running is your mouth off son. Nothing new there.
"We have jobs and future"
That's will be of great comfort in the current economic climate.....Jesus Christ, these right wing loons are off the scale.
skoutl writes:
ReplyDelete"This kinda sums up the mentality of the Islamphobes. How can anyone argue rationally with the above statement ? I challenge anyone to try."
Of course, it is eminently reasonable to assume that skoutl has not the slightest conception or grasp of what it means to "argue rationally". At best, he associates those words with some primitive emotion triggered in his limbic system which translates roughly into "That's BAD! I disagree with it!" not to mention that he would then want to physically defend himself and his gang (fellow Muslims) and his gang's creed (Islam), through physical violence, as he clearly implied in his retort to me further up above, in which he wrote, concerning my report of the Christians who respond with mature kindness to Penn Gillette's verbal mockery of their religion:
"As for Christianity bearing the brunt of this mockery, is that a problem for Christians to address or not? Islam chooses to defend itself. Christianity should do the same. The fact that it chooses not to is its problem."
I would ask skoutl if this "defending itself" Islam does includes such examples (which can be repeated innumerably around the world) as when a Muslim cleric, Sheikh Abubakar Hassan Malin, during a Friday sermon in a mosque in Mogadishu on September 15, 2006, exhorted Muslims to hunt down and kill anyone who insults Mohammed and Islam. Indeed, he was quoted in the New York Times at the time (September 17, 2006):
“Whoever offends our Prophet Muhammad should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim.”
What got this Muslim cleric so fanatically exercized? A very sedate lecture the Pope had given a few days before in Germany, in which he quoted from a medieval Byzantine emperor who himself had stated that Mohammed was a violent man. So a mere lecture citing historical quotes in order to criticize Islam is a good reason to hunt people down and kill them?
On the Monday after this Muslim cleric's rant in his mosque sermon, two Muslims in Mogadishu hunted down an elderly Catholic nun and shot her in the back 3 times (she died shortly thereafter). This Catholic nun had spent 40 years of her life helping Muslim children in Somalia in her capacity as a nurse in hospitals.
For more details, see my essay Saint Leonella.
As I say, I would ask skoutl this, if he ever answered questions put to him; but as he doesn't, I won't bother to ask him. It's precisely this hyper-sensitivity to criticism among Muslims, causing them to resort to violence because they have little or no anger management capability, that is generating all the supposed "Islamophobia" -- which is actually a reasonable concern about precisely the all-too likely propensity among Muslims around the world for hair-trigger violent responses to a world where people disagree.
As for the form of skoutl's comment (which has little or nothing to do with skoutl's capacity, or lack thereof, for rational argument) -- any statement is capable of being argued against rationally. If the statement is, or is not, cogent, the rational counter-argument will reveal that. Thus, my statement I made in my comment is no remarkable exception. Of course skoutl will not provide it, since he is impotent to do so. I invite anyone to do so; then we can get on with an actual debate.
Thanks Wisdom Hunter; that's very kind of you.
ReplyDelete"All evidence to the contrary" - really? Put your money where your mouth is - in your case big mouth? Provide us the evidence. I provide you hundreds of evidence, including from yourself Mr. very short memory. The Moslims are worried. Thousands left and others are scared shitless each time there is a knock on the door. Your phones are tapped. You are watched. Get that.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHesperado my friend, don't waste your time with the mohamedan :D There is nothing to argue about. You started your comment with a number of observations followed by an assumption that logically follows from the observed facts and you concluded with your stated expectations of the future. He can take it or leave it!
ReplyDeleteThanks Dar-Schan for your sympathy.
ReplyDeleteAnd no need for others to express their concern or sympathy: I know all of you (except the Muslims) are good people who would wish the same for me.
Trying to follow Jesus,
ReplyDeleteYes I know: I wasn't really addressing skoutl. I was using that as an opportunity to sharpen my critical blades for good practice. :)
Folks, again, please stop responding to the troll.
ReplyDeleteHesperado, I am so sorry about your situation. If you are living near the poverty level, your state should have a low-income medical plan. Most ststes do. Have you checked into that?
CGW - I been diverting his attention from abusing the liberator, and hoping all the good folks here keep up the good work advising our subject.
ReplyDelete"Your phones are tapped. You are watched. Get that. "
ReplyDeleteif you say so sunshine.....PSML :)
"This dire and metastasizing situation in the West is only exacerbated by the increasing number of Muslims in our midst, coming here through immigration and moving around at liberty because of our social freedoms -- plus all the Muslims through the dominance of our culture our PC MC given incredible access and influence to various places and institutions (nearly every Western country has Muslims in the police forces, fire departments, hospitals, even our intelligence organizations and armies (Muslims in the FBI, or in England in MI-5, etc.), as well as in political office and academe, not to mention nuclear plants, energy plants, water supply plants, food service industry, etc.)."
Had to repost this nonsense by Hesperado because it is rock solid evidence of paranoia in the extreme. So much so that I will wager that Hesperado believes Obama is a Muslim.
Hesperado, you're using reasoning and logic with this moslem, and that is, futile. How can one expect someone to be reasonable when their reverence lies with a, child molester, a murderer, a thief and a warmonger? He won’t answer a few simple questions about his monster Muhammad. He is a gutless Mohammedan.
ReplyDeleteIt worked. He is listening. He has gone away for some fresh air-
ReplyDeleteSkuti, skuti, skuti... where are you?
Lets play... here is a ball... go'n get it!
"Had to repost this nonsense by Hesperado because it is rock solid evidence of paranoia in the extreme." - there is no nonsense. These are facts. We trusted Moslums and let them into our society. We gave them the opportunities. That has happened over the years when we were not fully aware of their real intentions. We have a problem, because it is difficult to determine when any Mohamedian gonna flip. That appears to be happening a lot since 9/11 - don't mention it was the Joooos did that, another piece of crap gets dished out all over the Islamic societies.
ReplyDeleteSkuti - Chew on this sunshine and figure who is phobic?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16366971
darn filthy job keepin these backward ass Crackers at bay.......but has to be done :)
ReplyDeleteBTW the fake blogger fantasises about marry one of you loons
"I was always fascinated with the idea of marrying a western non Muslim man "
Well we got a ripe bunch of sad white boys right here, take your pick sweetheart, these sadd MOFOs actually want to help you
HAHAHAHAHA :) :) :)
skuti - she's definitely aint gonne choose you in this life. She will chose someone who will respect her - that excludes MoSons. Your charm didn't work. She has a class: You have none. You lost. Bye bye
ReplyDeleteawww dar-schan, all miffed becaused you lost the fake blogger to Hesperado, ROFLMAO.......c'mon they would make a lovely couple.....he whose is paranoid to the hilt and she who gets a spaz attack just by ealing past a mosque!!!!
ReplyDelete"... I was always fascinated with the idea of marrying a western non Muslim man "
ReplyDeleteone word blogger DAMN!!!!
This aint about religion and freedom its about the blogger getting her end away. If you have a passport then get on a plane and go live out your little fantasy.
Norway massacre liked spencer should be able to hook you up with some decent christian guy.
You just have to filter out the lady boys from his site.
..." I was always fascinated with the idea of marrying a western non Muslim man"
just reading that makes me want to have a shower! DAMN!
Dar-schan: I getcha.
ReplyDeleteHesperado: Write to R.Spencer at director@jihadwatch.org and ask him for my email address. I'll help you look for insurance plans as far as I am able.
anj - wtf? When you take that shower, keep under it for a long tome. Don't scare yourself again on this blog. Its all under control ask your chum brother, skuti.
ReplyDelete"his aint about religion and freedom its about the blogger getting her end away. If you have a passport then get on a plane and go live out your little fantasy.
ReplyDeleteNorway massacre liked spencer should be able to hook you up with some decent christian guy.
You just have to filter out the lady boys from his site."
LOL, So true......fake blogger has the pick of the lady boys like dar-schan, hesdperado, cgw, etc
Thanks for your concern CGW. You can email me at myhesperado@yahoo.com
ReplyDeleteI'd rather not go through Spencer for complicated reasons.
Skouti you still haven't answered the question about your filthy child molesting false prophet. Have you Moslem? You're a gutless little mohammedan aren't you? Doll or no doll, moslem?
ReplyDelete"I'd rather not go through Spencer for complicated reasons"
ReplyDeletedo tell, fell out with spencer did ya ?
Steve,
The kiddy fiddling christian priests obviously got the better of you son.......look how you turned out......don't think the fake blogger will go for damaged goods like you
To those who are quoting Shakila talking about how she wished she could marry a non-Muslim man, well, I want to say that you would be surprised at the number of Muslim women (even devout Muslim women!) who wish they were able to marry the non-Muslim men they encountered. The only thing holding them back from accepting such marriages from themselves is the fact that they follow the Qur'an which forbids them from marrying Christian men. For others, they don't care about what the Qur'an says there, but fear their family's reaction as they would definitely disown them if they did so. I personally know two women who were disowned for marrying Christian men.
ReplyDeleteAnd who would blame these women for not wanting to marry Muslim men? These Christian men the Muslim women married are men who truly respect women, they don't call their women "harem", they don't force them to wear the Hijab, they don't have "jealousy" (aka distrust) about their wives speaking to or befriending other men.
Compare that to, say, the posts from Skouti and other commentators here bashing in such a low manner at Shakila.
Skouti you can't possibly have any problem with vile kiddy fiddling Priests since your false prophet was in the same category. LOL
ReplyDeleteAnd by the way Moslem those priests are considered scum by all decent people, they're not, revered, like you child raping false prophet, are they, moslem? Not much to say about that eh. Who can blame you.
Skouti... do you think Aisha was the only little child your sick false prophet had sex with? More than likely he would have had little captured children and toddlers sent to his tent for some more molestation, especially when Aisha was getting on in years like, 11 or 12 years old. What a vile sack of garbage he was eh?
Skouti, will you condemn old men from having sex with children? Simple question. Yes or No?
skuti-"the pick of the lady boys like dar-schan" ... you are a clueless clown about women. I guess you won't know a thing about women, your first cousine was already married to you two seconds after she was born. Lets see, you are about 53, following your prophits footsteps, your mother thinks highly of you - a good Muslim boy, LOL. You people are totally screwed awkwardly backwards in every which way you look.
ReplyDeleteThere been plenty of Muslim woman around who won't give a hoot about their parents thought to enjoy some intimacies with me. That burn your heart up skuti, right?
No doubt Moslem males would make the worst lovers on the planet since they don't need to consider the feelings of their female property. Two minutes of sex would be a marathon for Moslems. LOL
ReplyDelete"I want to say that you would be surprised at the number of Muslim women (even devout Muslim women!) who wish they were able to marry the non-Muslim men they encountered"
ReplyDeletethis sounds suspiciously like the argument that greenforest makes that all 1.5 billion muslims are forced to stay in Islam........Sheesh you lot really make the above up as you go along.
"These Christian men the Muslim women married are men who truly respect women"
Well colour me surprised. Gee Wizz, who knew that christian men respect their women. I mean, christian men don't beat up, kill, rape, any of their women do they ??? No not at all
Talitha,
ReplyDeleteThe Quran does not explicitly forbid Muslim women from marrying Christian and Jewish men. That is rather a mainstream interpretation that arose in Islamic law. The Quran forbids both Muslim men and Muslim women from marrying polytheists, allows Muslim men to marry Christian and Jewish women, but is silent on the question of whether Muslim women can marry Christian and Jewish men.
"There been plenty of Muslim woman around who won't give a hoot about their parents thought to enjoy some intimacies with me."
ReplyDeleteROFLMAO!!!! oh man that was hilarious.....poor lady boy dar-schan really letting himself go on his own lil fantasy there.
Listen blud, you just blew what little hope you had with the fake blogger. Like you ever had a look in the first place despite all your butt kissin to her, hehehehehe
Skouti lets see what kind of a person you really are? Shall we?
ReplyDeleteSkouti will you condemn any old man that has sex with a child?
Chirp....chirp....chirp.....chirp....
ReplyDeleteNotice the Moslem skouti can’t answer the question about condemning old men that have sex with children. While there is little doubt close inbreeding has dulled his mind, there is enough gray matter left that allows him to understand that if he does condemn them he condemns his child raping prophet in the process.
ReplyDeleteThe Moslem’s cowardice silence shows two things: that he truly believes his filthy prophet had sex with children, and demonstrates how sick and twisted the death cult has made this headbanging zombie of Allah/Satan.
um Steve, are you too upset about your hero, tommy "I got slapped by a muslim" robinson
ReplyDeletecheck it out fool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMW032VThuQ
enjoy :)
You are sub-human garbage aren't you skouti. You're a Moslem headbanging zombie who won't condemn old men for having sex with children. Why moslem?
ReplyDeleteYou and your dirty filthy false prophet are the same trash. Eh?
LIG stevey bwoy. LIG :)
ReplyDeleteHesperado,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote:
"The reputation of Spencer in this regard (and the potential of a hoax damaging that reputation) is, tragically, more important than the alleged veracity of an apostate's personal saga. This is precisely the kind of hard choice a society has to make, repeatedly in various ways, when at war."
I agree. And yet in this case we should not have to make such a choice, because Robert and Ali Sina and others could have communicated to us the means by which they became sufficiently confident that Liberated is genuinely an apostate (e.g., possibly, interview by phone and/or video, in person, corroboration with other people who know Liberated, etc.). Some emails, some pictures, and some comments on Faithfreedom are altogether not enough evidence for corroboration--but that's all they've mentioned so far.
Regarding your problems with your neck and shoulders, you have my sympathy. I get stiff in the neck and shoulders sometimes if I spend to much time at my computer for my research work, though exercise in my case does correct it somewhat. I am wondering if you have considered physiotherapy?
Anyways, I wish you a Happy New Year.
Greenforest,
ReplyDeleteOf course you may argue that (about the interfaith marriages) but on grounds of reality the leading "interpretation" is that the Qur'an forbids this marriage. It is like the issue with Hijab which has not been explicitly endorsed though interpretations make it so.
And both are "widespread rules issued on the consensus of the Ulama" as claimed by those who defend it.
Can we sit and argue that the Qur'an does not forbid interfaith marriages for women? Sure! Will that change reality that they won't be allowed anyway, and in cases be disowned for defying what is set as the rule? I'm afraid not.
Talitha,
ReplyDeleteI agree with almost all of that, including your implication that reform within Islam on this issue does not seem likely. But my response to your previous statement was just a narrow or technical one about what the actual text of the Quran says and omits, as distinguished from interpretations derived for Islamic law (which also draws on sources outside the Quran such as the Hadiths).
To those who were mocking the thought that Muslim women wanted non-Muslim hudands, let me share why.
ReplyDeleteChristianity: One man, one woman, become one in the yes of God as they are joined in flesh. The Bible commands the man to Love his wife as Christ loves His Church. For richer or for poorer, for sickness and in health, till death do us apart.
Islam: One man, multiple wives if you aren't satisfied with one. Marriage is a "serious contract" signed with God. Divorce can occur by simply uttering "You are Divorced". If the wife turns out to be infertile, or falls ill, the man doesn't have to stick to her, there is no "in sickness and in health", when she's ill he has the chance and the justification to go and remarry.
Sure, there are bad Christian men as there are bad Muslim men, but we are comparing marriage in both religions, and honestly, Islam loses there.
Muslim women know that all Muslim men see it as their God-given right to have more than one wife. They know that marriage in Islam is temporary as the man can end it by uttering "You are Divorced" if he thought she put too much salt in the food.
This is one of the many reasons even I, as a former Muslim, used to wish I would never end up with a religious Muslim. Same with my Muslim friends, who wished they would find a completely secular Muslim who would not follow the Qur'an.
Now, as you see, Shakila took a further step and left Islam alltogether. Who needs this kind of religion that makes a woman feel less, makes a man feel like he has to be an eternal asshole to satisfy God? It's terrible for both men and women and I feel sorry for everyone whose life has been damaged because of Islam.
Thanks for your kind words Liberated One.
ReplyDeleteBest wishes for a Happy New Year and inner peace in your struggles.
Hi Shakila, This is Sam (Indian Hindu) from Canada. Now that you have taken this extremely brave step of apostatizing from Islam (Riddah) even upon the fear of death, how do you see the whole Pakistani/Islamist perspective on Kashmir and proxy war against India? And how do you feel about the demonization of Hindus (specifically) in Pakistani textbooks?
ReplyDeleteIn the Qur'an Allah says that if Muhammad were to lie about Allah, Allah would cut Muhammad's aorta; canonical ahadith say that as Muhammad died, he felt as if his aorta were being cut (hat tip to David Woods of answeringmuslims.com)
ReplyDeleteQur'an 69:44-46:
"And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings,
We would certainly have seized him by the right hand,
Then We would certainly have cut off his aorta."
-------------------------------------------------------------
From Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 713:
Narrated Ibn Abbas [a companion of Muhammad]:
"...Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, 'O Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison.' "
-----------
See also Book 39, Number 4498 from canonical hadith collection Sunan Abu Dawud.
It's been 5 years since we last heard from "Liberated". Robert Spencer and that other Counter-Jihad guy (can't remember, was it Ibn Warraq or Ali Sina?) claimed at the time to be in contact with her and to know more particulars. Yet they, and "liberated" herself, have been mysteriously silent these past 5 years as to what happened to her. One gets an ominous sinking feeling, knowing her plight, and the danger of an ex-Muslim not only in a Muslim country but still in contact with her Muslim family, when we know how many Muslims kill their own family members for "honor crimes" such as "Liberated" according to her own testimony was "guilty" of (not to mention she seemed to recklessly rub their faces in it, by inviting her Infidel boyfriend over to family dinner, etc.).
ReplyDeleteSo what happened? And why hasn't anyone (except me) mentioned this in the past 5 years?