Monday, January 2, 2012

A message from Robert Spencer

I just got off the phone with Shakila, the Liberated One, and we agreed that it would be helpful, at least for people of good will, for me to add a note here affirming her veracity. I'm not concerned about jihadis, Islamic supremacists and jihad enablers who will not be satisfied by anything I say, but since people on the side of freedom have raised questions, it seemed worthwhile to address a few concerns that have been raised.

First, Shakila has posted a large amount of personal information here, leading some to be worried about her safety, and others to wonder why she is so apparently unconcerned about making personal information public even though she says she is in a country where she could be arrested or killed for her apostasy if discovered. In fact, while the information she has given about her life situation is generally accurate, she has changed small details so as to avoid detection.

However, I have not only spoken with her on the phone. I have seen her resume, have her address, seen her photograph, and have other details about her situation that have not been and are not going to be made public. Those who have detected what appear to be anomalies in her story are working from information that is necessarily incomplete, because to reveal too much would be to put Shakila in danger. For example, some have noted that she said that she didn't know Arabic, as she is Pakistani, but lives and works in a Middle Eastern country. The country in which she lives, however, has a large population of non-Arabic speakers, and English speakers are especially in demand. Others have wondered why Shakila is complaining when she lives what she describes as a reasonably wealthy and comfortable life. But a cage even gilded is still a cage: she cannot state her apostasy openly, or her life would be in danger. No amount of physical comfort can make up for the spiritual and psychic prison that Islamic apostasy law creates.

Note also that she has not asked anyone for anything, least of all money. We are working on trying to get her to a safe place, but this blog is not an appeal for any kind of assistance.

In short, Shakila is real and is telling the truth, as the estimable and courageous Ali Sina can also attest. I hope that all decent people will support her efforts to live as a free human being.

73 comments:

  1. Great! Thanks Robert. I'm glad this is cleared up now, for those of us of good will and who trust you and Ali Sina.

    Liberated,

    I am sorry if you were offended by my recent expressions of some doubts. I think it is better now for you, and for Robert, and everyone else supporting you, that this issue has been dealt with. I wish you all the best and look forward to reading your writings, and I hope you write the book you mentioned.

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  2. If any assistance is needed I will glad to help.

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  3. Thanks, Spencer.

    Truly, I wasn't concerned but I know others were. I just hope to share encouragement and hope, for even if she wasn't real, she voiced concerns that were real and our words of comfort would be accepted by those who were silent, but in a similar circumstance.

    Shakila,

    God bless and comfort you through the coming year. I can only imagine the heartbreak of wanting to share something great with your family, but knowing not only would they reject your gift but reject you too.

    Know this, that after this life we will inherit another. Even unbelievers and the wicked will be raised in the last day to inherit their reward whether of good or ill. Our god is a merciful and loving god who will judge with fairness and mercy; so, that those who could not know, will not be judged as harshly as those who did know, and those who never had an opportunity in this life will have an opportunity to learn and live in the spiritual world before the day of judgement. His hand is extended still to all who will accept and repent from wrong doing, and the atonement of his son, our brother, Jesus Christ, is available to all who will turn to him. Your family, may reject now, but through your example, through time and the power of love, the opportunity may yet come when they will be able to accept and will rejoice with you in the last day. Hold fast to the truth, cleave unto it like an iron rod through the raging storm, and your reward is sure.

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  4. I never expressed any doubts about Shakila. I'm sure Robert already has more than enough to do without an alter ego? May the Gods smile upon you both and guide your every footstep until your allotted timespan on this earth is fulfilled.

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  5. Glad I could help in the so called verification process, LOL

    Gawd, look at you lot.....verification process indeed. Lets see now, a fake blogger created spencer is now verified by spencer....hilarious. you couldn't make this stuff up.

    Anyway let the fun begin........when's is the fake blogger gonna let us have her next pearl of wisdom on life, universe, life etc

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  6. Wow! Just when I think Robert couldn't be more the man, the human who cares about us, he goes and walks the line for someone he doesn't know. I am ashamed to call myself a man, it is Robert who has shown all of us just what it means to care more about someone than yourself. Bravo, Robert, and thank you.

    Shakila, it is tough to go through what you are experiencing, just remember that when the journey is over, and you can finally breath free air, there will be rejoicing across the world for you. All of us wait for that wonderful day, and maybe then we can all smile and hug you, telling you how much we missed you, and how much you mean to us. I may be just one small person on this blue orb, but you are the light of freedom and liberty we need to believe in what we are doing. God bless you always, we will be here when you finally arrive in the land of the free, wherever that may be. Thank you.
    Barry Sommer islamtodayoregon.blogspot.com

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  7. skouti:
    I don't understand why you can't just admit that Muslims become Murtaad all the time? Is it a psychological thing? There were the Rida' wars during the time of the Caliph Abu Bakr al-Saddiq and many people apostatized.

    Narrated in Sahih al-Bukharee'

    "It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) breathed his last and Abu Bakr was appointed as his successor (Caliph), those amongst the Arabs who wanted to become apostates became apostates. 'Umar b. Khattab said to Abu Bakr: Why would you fight against the people, when the Messenger of Allah declared: I have been directed to fight against people so long as they do not say: There is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was granted full protection of his property and life on my behalf except for a right? His (other) affairs rest with Allah. Upon this Abu Bakr said: By Allah, I would definitely fight against him who severed prayer from Zakat, for it is the obligation upon the rich. By Allah, I would fight against them even to secure the cord (used for hobbling the feet of a camel) which they used to give to the Messenger of Allah (as zakat) but now they have withheld it. Umar b. Khattab remarked: By Allah, I found nothing but the fact that Allah had opened the heart of Abu Bakr for (perceiving the justification of) fighting (against those who refused to pay Zakat) and I fully recognized that the (stand of Abu Bakr) was right. (Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0029)"

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  8. "skouti:
    I don't understand why you can't just admit that Muslims become Murtaad all the time? Is it a psychological thing"

    Not at all Usama, it just that with spencer, you have to take everything he writes with a truckload of salt.

    You don't believe all the bollocks about spencer being an "expert" on Islam do you ?

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  9. Interestingly, Liberated's blog, over the span of its inaugural essays, has spent most of it's take-off time, so to speak, on the sub-topic of her veracity. And this preoccupation has been reflected not only by readers in comments (both here and at Jihad Watch), but also by the blogger herself, Liberated One.
    She, Spencer and Ali Sina probably did not anticipate this.

    The concern behind the sub-topic is not necessarily unworthy, and the tendency to react in irritable or annoyed fashion (as Liberated, Ali Sina, Spencer, and Liberated's supporters in this regard have at various moments tended to do) even to those of mature and reasonable good will in this regard is childish and silly. The concern for veracity in this regard is no different than the concern for veracity that comprises the very heart of the Graeco-Roman/Judaeo-Chrsitian search for truth, which throughout the long career of Western civilization has informed Philosophy, Theology and Modern Science, not to mention politics, ethics and laws. Shame on those who imply that the concern is not laudable and important. They should rather praise and thank those who have this concern -- for it is always a laudable concern, particularly with matters this important; it is indeed the very essence of what we are fighting to defend from Muslims whose culture is inimical to the search for truth and the love that impels it and illuminates it.

    After commending and thanking those with this concern, the defenders should then proceed to demonstrate, in calm and matter-of-fact terms and tonality, how this concern is unfounded.

    That said, now that Spencer has weighed in with at least the latter mostly, while this doesn't necessarily mean that the scales over every skeptic's eyes have miraculously and immediately fallen, it may well mean that it is time to acquiesce to "agree to disagree" -- and to allow Liberated One to get on with blogging about more primary concerns relating to the problem of Islam.

    As she wrote in her previous post "Happy New Year":

    I just hope that this is the last time I am trying to defend myself or prove my sincerity, because from now on, I would like to focus on the main issue here, that is exposing Islam and to explicate my apostasy in detail.

    So look out my next post, entitled “The Holocaust.”

    Let's see what she has to say, shall we?

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  10. Hey skouti,

    Thanks for the laughs.You are a regular clown.

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  11. as opposed to the expert clown such as yourself Guy :)

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  12. Well that's what I call an endorsement. 'Nuff said about that.

    I will be following developments here with interest.

    I suspect that Shakila speaks for thousands, perhaps, if we are lucky, many thousands in similar circumstances. And in that capacity may provide at least inspiration where it is undoubtedly much needed.

    I look forward to reading more about her perspective on the world in which she lives.

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  13. "Great! Thanks Robert..."

    ...and I must add thanks Liberated, for clearing this up, because as Robert notes this announcement was a joint decision.

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  14. Hello Shakila, I am a regular reader of faithfreedom.org and am fairly familiar with the psychology of south asians, so I know that you are for real. I wish you good luck with your apostacy and your new founded belief in Christianity but I have no idea what suggestions to give you.

    But the real reason why I am writing here is because I was recently fired from my job. I worked hard for the agency but they laughed at me and said I was incompetent. They never took any of my projects seriously. They like the shock and awe projects (like what Veena Malik did) as opposed to the 'boring' projects that I presented. And then they wonder why they haven't been able to capture Dawood Ibrahim in 19 years. As pissed off as I am and aching for revenge, I decided to give away the agency's secrets to the enemy. But there is one thing that stopped me: I have loved ones in Pakistan and I am not very fond of Islam. If the enemy is successful in neutralizing the RAW work, and in establishing a totalitarian Islamic state, my loved ones will suffer too.

    But I have hit upon an idea. I will reveal the secrets to the apostates, and reveal them in such a way that they feel empowered and stop fearing the jihadists. The apostates will defeat the jihadists and then I'll ask my ex-boss 'Who did you call 'out of his mind' and incompetent again?' That way, not only can I take revenge against RAW but also end up helping the apostates and my loved ones in Pakistan.

    Next post soon

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  15. Note:

    The commenter "Erich" is me. Sometimes when I sign in to Google, it comes out as "Erich" rather than "Hesperado". The name "Erich", of course, is also a pseudonym, created to hide and protect my real name, Alfred E. Newman.

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  16. I am curious about Liberated's new article to come:"About the Holocaust".

    I know Ahmadinejad has several times said it never happened

    I have some knowledge of the Hitler exegesis/it means "interpretation" in Greek among scholars.

    They are divided into 2 groups:

    1.The Intentionalists

    They say Hitler early on had the idea of killing all the Jews in the world.The most radical was Lucy Dawidowicz,who said that he decided it in Nov 1918,when he heard of Germany's defeat in WWI.

    2.The Functionalists

    They said Hitler did not intend to do it but later decided for it based on circumstances.The latest date given for his DECISION to kill them all is Nov 1941.

    Then there is debate about:

    Without Hitler no Holocaust? Or would it have happened anyway?

    Comparative studies have shown that Judeophobia was far greater in France,poland,Russia,etc,so another question of Hitler studies is:"Why did it happen in Germany?"

    We also have:

    Hitler was a Christian?

    Hitler was a theist but he was not a Christian.But many insist he was because he made references to Christianity.Though Hitler was a theist his closest associates were atheists:Himmler and Eichmann(the 2 in charge of the Holocaust) and the brilliant Joseph Goebbels,Minister of Propaganda.

    The greatest philosopher of the 20th century was Martin Heidegger(1889-1976),who was an atheist.His masterpiece is “Time and Being”(1926),the most profound philosophical work in that century.Yet Heidegger was also a Nazi party member from 1933-1945.

    It was as if Plato had been a Nazi or Aristotle or Kant.

    About the Argument that the Palestinians are in No Way Responsible for the Holocaust

    It asks why they have to pay for Europe’s sin of judeophobia and genocide.They did not kill any Jews.They argue that:

    1.Germany commited the Holocaust.

    2.The best solution is to give the Jews a part of Germany as a homeland.

    But the Palestinian people had as their highest religious and political leader Hadj Amin Al-Hussaini,the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem,a man who was an ally of Hitler,knew of the Holocaust and worst of all was protected by the Palestinians and other Muslims after WW II.

    Read the article and see the Video about the Grand Mufti and Hitler

    http://www.antisharia.com/2011/04/28/the-german-documentary-the-turban-and-the-swastika-about-the-grand-muftis-life-and-nazi-past/

    AND ALSO

    Here in this article is ALL the Evidence the Grand Mufti knew and agreed with the Holocaust

    http://www.antisharia.com/2011/04/24/al-hussainigrand-mufti-of-the-palestinians-and-ally-of-hitler/

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  17. My suggestions are going to be helpful to apostates (of Islam) who have not yet converted to anything else. Shakila may not be able benefit from my suggestions since she has become a Christian. The reason being that it takes a lot of lying, deception, and stealth work to practice my suggestions, but lying is banned by the Ten Commandments.

    So if you are a murtad, who has not become a Christian, and you are in similar situation as Shakila, the best place to move and live would be... ahem... cough cough.... Pakistan. Surprised Aren't ya? You are thinking Pakistan is a hotbed of extremism where even a governer is not safe, so how can it be safe for murtads? Well that's because you don't know (yet) of the successes that RAW has had in influencing that nation's culture.

    After you move to Pakistan, you do not tell anyone of your apostasy. You tell everyone that you are a muslim, but you live as a liberal-moderate muslim. Now you are gonna say doing so is hypocrisy. Look, I already said there is going to be lying and deception. I have been trained to do this for years (you can't become a 'intelligence agency' like CIA, Mossad etc if you don't employ deception); You just have to be good at it. The governer was killed because he wasn't good at deception.

    In that mud-hole of extremism called Pakistan, exist islands of freedom; And if you have money, you can be free-er than westerners. I will explain more later but right now watch this youtube video for a glimpse of that freedom. The video was made by an extremist who wants people to become 'more' muslim, but the freedom that you see in the video DOES exist in Pakistan (Thanks to years of work by RAW). The video is in urdu but then urdu-speakers are the ones who are going to benefit most from this knowledge:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJKLxZBM6M

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  18. Erich,

    I appreciate your defense of these great principles.

    I would kindly differ with you on your claim that Spencer reacted with irritation/annoyance. I didn't sense any; his post is straightforward and professional and acknowledges the concerns that some of us had. I would also note that because Liberated agreed to the need for this announcement, this indicates a mature, professional, responsible response on her part as well.

    Eventually if Liberated is doing book deals etc. these sorts of issues will be met again as a matter of course.

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  19. jiltedRAWagent,

    "lying is banned by the Ten Commandments"

    Not in the sweeping way you seem to intend. The 9th Commandment specifies only one kind of lying: against your neighbor. Lying for your neighbor (let alone for a stranger, or for yourself) to protect their life (or your own life) is not condemned in the Decalogue.

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  20. Thanks for clearing that one up Robert. I agree we need to support her. You people are the experts. Some of the concerns were about the safety of you and AS.

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  21. Greenforest,

    As you may have seen by now, I am "Erich".

    You're correct -- I should not have lumped Spencer in with the others in my list, who are fairly categorized as having been annoyed or even prickly about the reasonable skepticism (and lumping the reasonable skepticism in with the unreasonable suspicions).

    Secondly, I didn't say that Spencer expressed that annoyance in this present essay here; I meant elsewhere. On re-reading past mentions of Liberated by Spencer, I do not find annoyance, per se; but I did find him doing a little bit of the lumping together, when in this post he implies that everyone who doubts Liberated's veracity is an "Islamic supremacist":

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/12/i-have-spent-35-years-in-an-evil-cult-and-it-is-so-difficult-to-get-over-it-or-put-it-behind-me.html

    Of course, that was relatively early in this budding blog, and perhaps it was since that moment in time that others one could not so easily lump (such as "Wellington" and "Kinana of Khaybar" over at JW, or yourself here) began to voice their concern.

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  22. Another type of "lumping together" in this regard is that of failing to distinguish between the claims (or insinuations) that

    1) Spencer and Sina are lying and have fabricated Liberated

    or

    2) Spencer and Sina with good intentions and with all their intelligence marshalled, may still be vulnerable to being duped by someone clever enough to do so. Or are we saying that is simply, and always, impossible?

    Surely, Spencer and Sina are not Superman and Batman, are they? Surely, they are capable of erring now and then. It was with regard to #2 where the skepticism was (and perhaps continues to be) of good will.

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  23. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  24. jiltedRAWagent - "the best place to move and live would be... ahem... cough cough.... Pakistan." ...

    great suggestion... why didn't I think of that?

    Can you pass that by "skouti", the blog resident clown?

    Hey skouti, did you get that .".. cough...cough Pakistan"?
    A place to be. No worries about the Jihadi next door, I forget you are a Jihadi. It doesn't get better for you. Go and find those apostates partying in the neck of the night, that our "secret resident agent" told us about. They are all in that video, but it is secret. Shhh..... who knows you, if you get lucky you may be raised to the rank of the top 10,000 wanted list.

    jiltedRAWagent - I like you.. you remind me of "skouti"... nah... I like you better... skouti you got a competition. Psss ... just between us girls ... do you have more secrets? I can't wait .... its so exciting...

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  25. @Hesperado hmm. Well, then Shakila and other murtads (now Christians) too, have the opportunity to live free in Pakistan. :)

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  26. "knew of the Holocaust "

    They didn't call Pope Pius XII Hitler's Pope for nothing. You might also want to look into the role the Vatican played in the Croatian Holocaust during WW2

    The Simon Weisenthal centre described the Allied response to the Holocaust as "inadequate" despite the Allies being aware of the Holocaust by 1942. inspite of this the US govt had a very strict immigration policy which barred many jews from entering the US. The same policy was not applied to many Nazis who entered the US after the war (See Ghelen Organisation)

    "A place to be"

    Nah dar-schan, much more fun living in your backward ass country.....we get free housing, free money (thanks to your hard earned tax dollars.....cheers, LOL)

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  27. I just posted this half an hour ago and now it is gone. Are we deleting comments here, moderator? I am only giving out ideas, no one has to follow them if they don't like. Anyway, here is the comment again-
    ----------------------------------------------

    @Dar-schan Alright, I sense the sarcasm, but like Shakila (and other murtads) said, she is also thinking of her nieces/nephews and all other loved ones. It is difficult to just leave them. What about THEIR future? Don't you want to change it too?

    Secondly, I'm not sure how familiar you are with pakistani society, but the wealthy/upper-class people there do not live the same way that middle and lower class does. The wealthy have lot of opportunities and are quite free to do whatever they want (if they are smart enough not to leak out their liberal-ness publicly). Here, watch another video (the first 2 minutes will give you sufficient idea)-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_kLzlypqmY

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  28. jiltedRAWagent - what the heck is the word "Murtad"? I find the word absolutely repugnant. We call the people who leave Islam, liberated.

    Sure your suggestion is incredible if it is not taken literally.

    Some great videos by the way - did you make them yourself or were they secretly downloaded from the Pakistani middle class computers? Wow... never knew Pakistanies can drink like that ... straight out of Jack's mouth...

    Where do they dispose of those empty liquor bottles? I was kind of wondering, if a jihadi will get hold of any of those bottles, I don't know, do you think they will blow themselves up in the vicinity of the dump?

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  29. jiltedRAWagent - just a nerdy question. If Shakila goes to that great country of yours, Pakistan, I guess she will receive no death threats, right? Is there anyway you can guarantee that? - It will help her to get some good night sleep.

    Suppose she gets death threats, allah forbid that won't happen, you can quickly get her out of the country too, right?

    You told us you are trained to be a professional liar - which of the postings should Shakila follow?

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  30. skouti, stay classy as a HATER

    Enjoy :)

    Canonical hadiths say Muhammad (in his fifties) consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was nine (lunar) years old.

    A lunar year is about 355 days long, which means that Aisha may have been several months short of her ninth birthday.

    Some examples from Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:

    Narrated Aisha:

    ”that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).”

    -------------------------------------------------

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:

    Narrated Aisha:


    “that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)."

    -------------------------------------------------

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:

    Narrated Ursa:

    “The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).”

    -------------------------------------------------

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

    Narrated Hisham's father:

    “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.”

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  31. skouti you love to HATE

    Enjoy :)

    Had Aisha reached puberty at age 9 when Muhammad, in his fifties, consummated the marriage with her? No, she had not: according to core Islamic texts, 1) her dolls were with her and 2) dolls are only permitted to prepubescent children

    From Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:

    Book 008, Number 3311:

    “A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.”

    In the next hadith, we learn that playing with dolls is only permitted for prepubescent children

    From Sahih al-Bukhari, a canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:

    Narrated Aisha: “I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me.” (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

    (The parenthetical statement is not mine -- it's in University of Southern California's Sahih al-Bukhari online, as you can see by clicking on the link above.)

    And then of course there is the increasingly infamous Qur'an verse 65:4 that specifies a waiting period for prepubescent and post-menopausal females to remarry after being divorced. There is no waiting period if the marriage was not consummated (See Quran 33:49). Thus Qur'an 65:4 assumes consummation with prepubescent girls.

    Qur'an Chapter 65, Verse 4:

    “And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.”

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  32. Skouti, don’t wear yourself out HATING

    Enjoy : )

    Islamic scholars' explanations of Qur'an 65:4 show that the verse assumes consummation of marriage with prepubescent girls

    Before quoting the scholars on Quran 65:4, it should be noted that Quran 33:49 lays down that when a divorced female is to marry a new spouse, a waiting period is required only if the previous marriage was consummated. The scholars I will be quoting below all know this.  One of them, Maududi, mentions and explains it.

    With that in mind, first consider Ibn Abbas, a companion of Muhammad, and one of many authorities who affirm that Qur'an 65:4 refers to the waiting period for prepubescent girls to remarry after divorce.

    Ibn Abbas on Qur'an 65:4
    “(And for such of your women as despair of menstruation) because of old age, (if ye doubt) about their waiting period, (their period (of waiting) shall be three months) upon which another man asked: “O Messenger of Allah! What about the waiting period of those who do not have menstruation because they are too young?” (along with those who have it not) because of young age, their waiting period is three months. Another man asked: “what is the waiting period for those women who are pregnant?” (And for those with child) i.e. those who are pregnant, (their period) their waiting period (shall be till they bring forth their burden) their child. (And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah) and whoever fears Allah regarding what he commands him, (He maketh his course easy for him) He makes his matter easy; and it is also said this means: He will help him to worship Him well.”

    Some eight hundred years later appeared the Tafsir al-Jalalayn, one of the most widely used interpretations of the Qur'an. Tafsir al-Jalalayn also tells us that Qur'an 65:4 speaks of waiting period for divorce of prepubescent girls:

    “And [as for] those of your women who (read allā’ī or allā’i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — both cases apply to other than those whose spouses have died; for these [latter] their period is prescribed in the verse: they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten [days] [Q. 2:234]. And those who are pregnant, their term, the conclusion of their prescribed [waiting] period if divorced or if their spouses be dead, shall be when they deliver. And whoever fears God, He will make matters ease for him, in this world and in the Hereafter.”

    [comment continued below]

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  33. [continued from above]

    65:4, according to Wahidi's respected explanation of the Qur'an:

    “(And for such of your women as despair of menstruation…) [65:4]. Said Muqatil: “When the verse (Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart…), Kallad ibn al-Nu‘man ibn Qays al-Ansari said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, what is the waiting period of the woman who does not menstruate and the woman who has not menstruated yet? And what is the waiting period of the pregnant woman?’ And so Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse”. Abu Ishaq al-Muqri’ informed us> Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn Hamdun> Makki ibn ‘Abdan> Abu’l-Azhar> Asbat ibn Muhammad> Mutarrif> Abu ‘Uthman ‘Amr ibn Salim who said: “When the waiting period for divorced and widowed women was mentioned in Surah al-Baqarah, Ubayy ibn Ka‘b said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, some women of Medina are saying: there are other women who have not been mentioned!’ He asked him: ‘And who are they?’ He said: ‘Those who are too young [such that they have not started menstruating yet], those who are too old [whose menstruation has stopped] and those who are pregnant’. And so this verse (And for such of your women as despair of menstruation…) was revealed”.

    The bracketed text is not me, it's in the Wahidi at Altafsir.com

    Ibn Kathir is perhaps the Muslim world's most respected Quran expositor.

    Kathir says of 65:4 “Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah [waiting period before remarriage] is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah [verse] in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. (see Qur'an 2:228) The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah [waiting period before remarriage] is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His [Allah's] saying;[Qur'an 65:4] (and for those who have no courses...)”

    [continued below]

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  34. [continued from above]

    Syed Abul Ala Maududi (died 1979), another famous Qur'an expositor, says of Qur’an 65:4: “Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Quran the question of the waiting period arises in respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Quran has held as permissible.

    So major Muslim expositors of the Quran agree that Quran 65:4 assumes and supports consummation of marriage with prepubescent girls. These expositors know what Maududi above mentions: per Quran 33:49, a waiting period before remarriage is only required if the dissolved marriage was consummated.

    And many Muslim translations of 65:4 make absolutely clear that it refers to remarriage of prepubescent girls. (See for example these translations: Al-Muntakahb, Abdel Haleem, Abdul Majid Daryabadi, Aisha Bewley, Ali Quli Qara'i, Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali, Muhammad Taqi Usmani.)

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  35. Traeh --- gee ... you down loaded the whole of Quran that Squoti never read in his life.

    You got lots of homework to do squoti - go back to that Madrassa or read it on your ipad. I know what I will do.

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  36. I got to shoosh ... my doll is gonna kill me if I didn't move my butt now.

    Later..

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  37. @Dar-schan "what the heck is the word "Murtad"? I find the word absolutely repugnant. We call the people who leave Islam, liberated"

    Ok, I accept that. From now on, I'll call them liberated.

    The videos are posted by some extremist who wants people to be repulsed towads liberty and come back to Islam. It appears that he cherry picked the scenes to make the actions of those people repulsive.

    If Shakila comes to Pakistan, keeps her mouth shut, and goes about her business as if nothing happened, the chance is very high that nothing will happen to her. But she must be careful not to do shock-and-awe high-voltage things like what Veena Malik did.

    "You told us you are trained to be a professional liar - which of the postings should Shakila follow?"

    Good question. If a professinal liar says 'The Earth is round like a ball' would that make the statement false? People should only follow something if it makes sense to them. If what I am saying makes no sense to liberateds, they SHOULD NOT follow. But if you are from Pakistan, you know that my claim about upper-class people living in a different world is true. Don't believe me? Ok, watch this video of Veena Malik(unfortunately in urdu again). Is she in burqa? Is she talking to a man? Is she in 'modest' clothes (by extremist standards)? Does the man seem like he has never spoken to liberal women before? That is happening in Lahore, Pakistan sir.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSXSfjpDKkQ

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  38. Skouti is a good flamer, but his mockery lacks facts. I've been reading Spencer for years, and all he does is report. He reports news about jihad, he reports the texts of Islam, and he very subtly has a good laugh at the expense of the willing, blind dhimmis who weep and gnash their teeth about the audacity of his statements. Shakila, I believe you, and I believe many are turning away from Islam. The cancer of shariah and the rot that festers from the pages of the Koran are driving Muslims into the merciful arms of Christ. The soul is the same for us all, whether we are believers in a deity or not, and when the filth and stench of death of evil become more than the soul can bare, Christ is there, waiting.
    You are in my prayers, as are you, too Skouti.
    http://tastyinfidelicacies.blogspot.com/2008/08/unutterable.html

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  39. I hope you find comfort in this, Shakila:
    http://www.stfrancismagazine.info/ja/images/stories/Seraphim-alBaramousy_116-128.pdf

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  40. First of all, I want to emphasize that my suggestions are directed towards the liberated ones from Pakistan. Everyone is welcome to comment or critisize but I will respond only if it seems in context.

    If you are a liberated one and are living in Pakistan, or are willing to move there, I am going to assume that you want your loved ones and your friends to be liberated from Islam too. This goal is not impossible to achieve and I am going to reveal some strategies, but this demands a lot of patience and discipline from you.

    The most important things are hypocricy and secrecy. Your liberation must remain a secret for a long long time, you must claim to be muslim, and you must do the bare minimum that your surrounding society demands of you. If someone asks "Are you muslim?", you should say "of course I am". Depending on situation and depending on who the other person(s) is, you may want to accuse them back for questioning your deen. There are dozens of RAW agents in Pakistan who have never been caught because they use the above strategy. Some are clerics. But don't congratulate the RAW yet, because there are hundreds of ISI agents in India and they haven't been caught either. For our purpose, all that means is that 'hypocricy and secrecy' WORKS.

    More later.

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  41. What is RAW? I thought it was the latest food craze...

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  42. Research and Analysis Wing. The 'Intelligence Agency' of India.

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  43. Please be safe. Bloggers have been caught in Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc

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  44. jiltedRAWagent - your suggestions are absurd and highly dangerous.

    How do we know you are not an ISI double agent wanting to entrap apostates and get them murdered in an honour killing? You sound very much like one.

    Come to a free country Shakila ,like New Zealand, or any in the west and live an open life of freedom instead of a lie in a closet with fear.

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  45. Thanks Robert for helping take care of Shakila and reassuring us about her private information.

    @ Hesperado - Thanks for sharing with us your real name of Alfred E. Newman. I hate it when people hide behind fake names like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck!

    @ minoria - Hitler was certainly not a Christian. He knew how to do the taqiyya as well as any Muslim and the Christians were told that as soon as they were next as soon as they were done with the Jews. Though Hitler expressed admiration for Islam and said Germany would have been better off with Islam's strength instead of the "weak" Christianity, he was planning to institute a neo-pagan Aryan Nazi religion after the war. There are some links to photos and documentation about this in the Freedom Bulwark forums.

    @ jiltedRAWagent - As the saying goes, "I feel your pain", but you should only consider the source. If you are as competent as you say, and they are as incompetent as you say (not hard to believe), then you were just a victim of the political environment and should not feel bad. Just consider the source. I am glad you have decided not to betray secrets to Pakistan, but you really need to get your emotions under control and just walk away from it and do what's best for your life. There is no reason to compromise your safety for revenge. You might seek employment with a private intel firm like STRATFOR or connect with the CIA or Mossad if you want to stay in the field.

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  46. Sorry. No edit function in blogspot:

    the Christians were told that they were next as soon as they were done with the Jews

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  47. The commenter "skoutl" wrote:

    They didn't call Pope Pius XII Hitler's Pope for nothing.

    Refuted here:

    The "Nazi Pope": one more PC MC brick dismantled

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  48. minoria said...

    I am curious about Liberated's new article to come:"About the Holocaust".

    I know Ahmadinejad has several times said it never happened
    ------------------------------
    If he was any kind of real man, all he has to do is to visit some of the places where people were killed and experience the atmosphere for himself, But then we all know what manner of man Ahmadinejad really is.

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  49. John K said...

    Thanks Robert for helping take care of Shakila and reassuring us about her private information.

    @ Hesperado - Thanks for sharing with us your real name of Alfred E. Newman. I hate it when people hide behind fake names like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck!
    Are you serious or being sarcastic?

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  50. Great news! Keep safe, both of you!

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  51. stephen,

    You might want to Google "Alfred E. Newman"

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  52. "You might seek employment with a private intel firm like STRATFOR "

    Just don't give them your credit card details , LOL

    "I've been reading Spencer for years, and all he does is report."

    yeah, that would explain why jihad watch is classed as a HATE site and banned by many organisations :)

    "Research and Analysis Wing. The 'Intelligence Agency' of India"

    Tell us again why your sorry ass was fired....incompentent was it or just plain STOOPID!!!!

    "Refuted here:"

    bet you were the first to notice the catholic abuse that was going on for years eh

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  53. The strategies that I am revealing here are not many but you can be quite successful if you practice them with dedication and persistence. Previously, I told you about 'hypocrisy and secrecy' which is the most important. Even if nothing else works, you should stick to this one for your own safety.

    Before I reveal the next strategy, I want to talk about the concept of 'The new normal'. This is a human psychological mechanism where people (and even entire societies) adapt to the new situation and over time forget the past ones. The new situation becomes the normal. Cellphones are perfect examples. In the past people lived without these just fine but can you imagine living without one now. Having a cellphone on you is now the new normal.

    Governments too take advantage of this psychological tendency on the part of people. A friend who lives in US told me of how the govt in his state increases the toll rates on highways every couple of years even though they had promised to be done with all tolls ones the initial construction costs were paid off. The officials wait for people to adapt to the new rates, they wait for people to completely forget the past, and then raise the rates again. Many times they go after the easy targets initially (truckers, out-of-state people paying cash etc), wait for it to become new normal, and then raise rates for everyone in the name of fairness. According to my friend, the tolls were increased again starting 2012 by 87 percent. And I assure you that the tolls will be increased yet again in 5 to 8 years. That is plenty of time for it to become the new normal.

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  54. Ok its time for the next double dose of strategies:

    There are plenty of things that the middle class of Pakistan does not like about the extremists. Do not let that repulsion die off. Be active and visible about things that everyone already hates about the extremists. Make it 'not-cool' to support them, and do not associate much with
    people who show too much support for extremist ideas. Make it 'cool' to hate the actions of extremists. Be careful though. Do not call them Jihadis, only extremists or terrorists, and do not exceed the limits that your immediate society is comfortable with. Going beyond those
    limits will certainly make you stand out. And remember to tailor your talk depending on who you are talking to. Your parents may be against only so many things about the extremists than your siblings, or friends, for example.

    You the liberated ones are not powerful enough to tackle the extremists face to face, but the government is. Since Pakistan is a democratic country, you can pressure the leaders to fight extremists. In the media and online, make it clear that you are against extremism and will not vote for the current leaders again if they fail to take action against the extremists. Do so repeatedly and often so that the leaders are conditioned and molded into fight-the-
    extremists mode. Remember they are politicians; they will do anything for votes. There is a saying 'A politician will do anything for power, he would even become a patriot.'

    More later.

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  55. As you can see, the strategies are quite simple. All it takes is faith and persistence, and you will be successful.

    You might be wondering why I am posting all this on a public blog where everyone including the extremists can see what the liberated ones are up to. Well, there is nothing to fear. The extremists support a lie, whereas you support the truth. What would they do? Shave their beards, put on jeans instead of pajamas and try to infiltrate. Infiltrate where? They wouldn't know where to go. If they do shave off long beards and wear western clothes, the youngsters will see more people without long beards and wearing western clothes. They will imitate this and become used to this freedom. It will be very difficult for them to gain jihadi mentality again. Secondly, I assure you if you follow 'hypocrisy and secrecy' and do everything within limits, the extremists will only be left scratching their heads and never be able to find you. Heck, even Mossad won't be able to find you.

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  56. jiltedRAWagent,

    The obvious mujahideen (bearded, wearing pajamas, abstaining from music, alcohol, etc.) are only one phalanx of the overall Jihad. Among the Muslims who appear and behave Westernized, it is safe to say -- and we would be reckless not to assume -- that there are innumerable, virtually impossible-to-detect, covert agents for the Jihad.

    The #1 priority for Westerners is the safety of our societies with regard to Muslim terrorists, whom we cannot be assured we will always be able to detect before they explode. Even though it is likely that a certain number of harmless Muslims exist, since we cannot tell the difference with sufficient certitude between the dangerous Muslims and the harmless ones, we must rationally treat all Muslims as equally deadly.

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  57. Missed out on your meds again Hesperado or was it just another of your spaz attacks

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  58. skouti,

    keep on being a HATER

    Have fun :)

    Bernard Lewis, renowned historian of Islam and the Middle East, says Islam imposes, without limit of time or space, the duty to subjugate non-Muslims

    In The Political Language of Islam, pp. 72-73:

    "...it is the duty of those who have accepted them [Allah's word and message] to strive unceasingly to convert or at least to subjugate those who have not. This obligation is without limit of time or space. It must continue until the whole world has either accepted the Islamic faith or submitted to the power of the Islamic state.”

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  59. Hey CGW,

    As per my email to you today, please acknowledge that we've been corresponding about my personal problem and that you offered to help me.

    Thanks,
    Hesp

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  60. Some good news to report:

    1. After Robert posted the above clear message of confirmation on Jihadwatch, some of the regular Jihadwatch readers who had lingering doubts have changed their minds and now believe Liberated. Based on that, I would guess that some doubters and fence-sitters in the Jihadwatch reading audience (most of whom don't comment) have now also changed their minds, as a result of Robert's strong testimony, and now believe in Liberated as well.

    2. A brief google search shows that lots of sites have picked up and featured Liberated's articles from Jihadwatch.

    3. I checked the website's traffic estimates at Alexa, and the U.S. ranking (152114, as of today) looks quite good for a blog that has just started less than two weeks ago.

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  61. @Hesperado The muslim society in Pakistan is quite different from the muslims in the west. The muslims who moved from Pakistan to the west too have different attitudes towards things even though they came from Pakistan. It is difficult to explain this but someone who has lived both in Pakistan and in the west would know what I am talking about. The strategies that I am explaining here would only work for liberated ones belonging to the middle class of Pakistan. These would not deliver results in the rest of Middle East (Dubai is probably an exception). Nor would these work with muslims in the west.

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  62. stephen said...
    "I'm sure Robert already has more than enough to do without an alter ego?"

    Stephen, Robert wasn't addressing the "alter ego" canard, a canard which was only raised (insincerely, as a taunt) by the Islamic trolls.

    Here, again, is Robert:
    "I'm not concerned about jihadis, Islamic supremacists and jihad enablers who will not be satisfied by anything I say, but since people on the side of freedom have raised questions, it seemed worthwhile to address a few concerns that have been raised."

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  63. An interesting and unorthodox appraisal of how 'non-religious spirituality' may undermine Islam: Forget tactics; the “clash of civilizations” is spiritual, not intellectual

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  64. Doll, I'm still praying for you. Don't give up the faith in the True God, the God of Love, the God of the Ten Commandments. Down with the Muslim god, Satan, also known as Allah.

    P.S. WE MUST DESTROY THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF ISLAM BEFORE THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF ISLAM DESTROYS US.

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  65. Robert,

    Thanks for the clarification. I never doubted Shakila's veracity in the first place.

    Shakila,

    Be encouraged, there are others who are turning to Christ from Islam. You are not alone. The Lord Jesus and his angels are able to guide, protect and preserve you. You are in my prayers.

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  66. Hesperado:

    Please check your email this a.m.

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  67. @ skouti

    Quote "
    Gawd, look at you lot.....verification process indeed. Lets see now, a fake blogger created spencer is now verified by spencer....hilarious. you couldn't make this stuff up."

    But isnt that what your claiming? So thank you for verifying that it is not made up. Because it could not be made up. LOL! The Muslim mind, such a fascianting thing to watch in action!

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  68. Hesperado said...

    stephen,

    You might want to Google "Alfred E. Newman"
    I know exactly who he is, that's why I assumed you were being sarcastic.

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  69. Robert, I didn't know you have multiple personality disorder

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