Sunday, January 29, 2012

Marriage and me

Each time I see a Muslim woman dressed up in the complete Islamic burqa with only her dead expressionless eyes piercing through the black face veil, I cannot but help feel extremely helpless and distressed. It breaks my heart to see a woman being treated worse than an animal. On top of that, they actually feel they are doing the right thing by subjugating themselves to the tyranny of their husbands or fathers.

So many of my friends have been forcefully married off against their will to their cousins or other men chosen by their families. These women have been suffering for years and probably would stay in a loveless marriage for as long as they live, mainly because they do not have a a choice. Period.

I have always been a very unconventional and progressive young woman with very radical views. My dad always said that he really pities the guy who will end up getting married to me. I guess my dad won't have to deal with that after all, since I am not anywhere close to getting married even at 35. I have always been a feminist as far as I can remember, and that is precisely why I could never imagine myself in a subservient role of a Muslim man's docile wife.

I have had plenty of suitors in the past, but somehow it never worked out with any of them. At first, I thought it was my destiny, or rather, my misfortune, or maybe there was something wrong with me, or that I lack what a man essentially wants in a woman, but now I realize that it was a lack of compassion from their side and an absolute absence of sensitivity and social acumen.

I have been accused rather pointedly by several well-wishers on my blog why have I not been married and why didn't my family ever try to get fix me up in an arranged marriage. It is not that they did not try or that I did not get a proposal, but more often than not, the man always ran away in the opposite direction after just one meeting or conversation with me. The reason would always be the same. The girl is too liberal, open minded and blunt... Well, that is the way I have always been, free spirited, uninhibited and straightforward. If a man cannot handle me, then he is not a man enough, at least not for me. I could never see myself getting married to someone who has an unwritten prenuptial contract saying his wife should wear the hijab or that she should quit working and stay at home full time looking after his mom and dad. I have never listened to my parents, so how could a man expect me to submit to him?

I have a mind of my own and I always make my own decisions. Sometimes, a choice may not be favorable, but still it is my choice, and I sincerely believe that we learn from our mistakes. There is absolutely nothing that I have ever regretted in my life, and I hope that there never will be.....

110 comments:

  1. I agree with you one hundred percent. Be a Woman of your own destiny. Please think carefully if selecting and religion my experience says they all sell used car. All the best

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  2. I'll get this one in quickly before the proselytizers turn up and swamp you with posts.
    Marry for love, Liberated, and nothing else. Do what your heart bids you. Find a man you are feel you happy to spend the rest of your life with. Find a man who loves you for what you are, and not what he expects you to be. Find a man who is tolerant of all beliefs and customs. A loving household is the best and only way to bring up children in order to ensure they don't grow up bitter and twisted. Let you children decide for themselves what path they wish to follow. All you have to do is love them for their own sake as God's gift to you.
    In the beliefs of my people we only marry for love. There may come a time however that you outgrow each other and feel the need to part. You can do this quite amicably if the need arises as people do grow at different rates. I can't say what is in your future but I would say marry for love and nothing else. You will know when you find the right person for you. May you be thrice blessed, Liberated. I'll stop here before the proselytizers turn up in force.
    Bless you Liberated for your honest approach to life.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Marry for love, Liberated, and nothing else. Do what your heart bids you. Find a man you are feel you happy to spend the rest of your life with. Find a man who loves you for what you are, and not what he expects you to be. Find a man who is tolerant of all beliefs and customs. A loving household is the best and only way to bring up children in order to ensure they don't grow up bitter and twisted. Let you children decide for themselves what path they wish to follow. All you have to do is love them for their own sake as God's gift to you."

      I see where this is going:

      "Call me good
      Call me bad
      Call me anything you want to baby
      But I know that you're sad
      And I know I'll make you happy
      With the one thing that you never had

      Baby, I'm [stephen] your man (don't you know that?)
      Baby, I'm [stephen] your man
      You bet!"

      I'm watching you:)

      Delete
    2. It's unbelievable that one individual can be so bitter and twisted just because I gave him a good rhetorical slap over his proselytizing. And lacking in intelligence as well, judging by this post. I think you're about burnt out Watty baby.If you can show one example where I have suggested anything that remotely justifies your pathetic last line, I'm sure we all would love to be made aware. All you are really doing is showing your own childishness to the world and it's dog. Thank you for proving my point. Now why don't you go and bother God somewhere were we don't have to read your nonsense? You have just shown a callous disregard of the blog owner Liberated so maybe it's time you moved on. I suppose you could always join scuttle as your intellects are probably on a par, and you both seem to like trying to ridiculing Liberated. Now go and play on the motorway or something.

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    3. And I'm truly sorry about your home situation Watty. Maybe if you apologise and beg her forgiveness, she'll give you another chance?

      Delete
  3. Liberated, I second stephen's comment above. NEVER marry for anything other than Love. NEVER "submit" to having sex with a partner chosen for you out of a sense of duty, obligation or fidelity to a belief system. NEVER conceive children except out of Love.

    It's worth waiting for.

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    Replies
    1. Thank you for that CGW. I believe this is one of the reasons islam will eventually fail. Muslims do not love their children, rather they love the death cult to the point where their children are seen only in the context of warriors for muhammad. We in the West love our children and life while mulsims are like zombies looking for a place to self immolate. I've never heard of a non muslim suicide bomber or a non muslim honour killing. Also the inbreeding through forced marriages to cousins, etc, will do no good genetically. Our culture seems to be superior because we in the West are forward looking while islam only looks backwards.
      As long as they see their children as tools in the hands of their false prophet and his sock puppet god, I think we will win in the end.

      Delete
  4. Hello Hesperado,

    I checked out what you said about Licona and you are right,but his dissertation will soon be published and so there would be critical review of his ideas,which as I said before,were analyzed by experts.

    Hello Stephen:

    You have a very anti-intellectual attitude,since as I told you before,the info I gave is what scholars assert.It is not something I invented,if you have something against it then you should write to them for clarification.They certainly know all your objections.

    Did you know that those who say Jesus never existed are not taken seriously?Like Earl Doherty,who wrote "The Jesus puzzle" and offered the Jesus Seminar,which is the most radical NT group in existence,with 7O members, 5,OOO dollars if they would accept to open a debate if he existed or not.

    Now you consider THEM to be scholars,don't you?They rejected the offer,for them it was a meaningless idea.

    Now Robert Spencer can give us good reasons for thinking Mohammed never existed but if the equivalent evidence concerning Jesus were in existence regarding Mohammed then Spencer would have never written his latest book.

    The Jesus Deniers

    G. A. Wells was the first to come with the idea,that Jesus never existed,he wrote several books, but by 2OO3 he had abandoned it.

    The only ones who hold it are,as far as I know,Acharya,Robert price,Early Doherty,Richard Carrier..Again,if the amount of evidence we have about Jesus we were to have about Mohammed,then Robert would never doubt his existence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't you ever give up? I do not have an anti intellectual attitude at all. You failed to answer any of my valid points and just rabbited on with your biased point of view as f I had mentioned practically nothing of any merit. Why would I wish to write to anybody for clarification about whether or not Jesus existed? I already made myself clear on that subject just before you moved the goalposts to embrace the Turin shroud. I debunked that and you failed to counter my valid points at all. I would suggest that you go back and reread what I said. The history of your beloved church is steeped in the blood of innocents as any student of history can inform you. AS I mentioned previously, I don't hold Jesus responsible for what was done by people such as you in his name; I hold people like you responsible, just as I hold Muhammad and his murderers responsible. I reiterate, Jesus was not a Christian. It doesn't matter what your friends might or might not theorise about Jesus and the bloody Turin shroud. At the end of the day it's just an old piece of cloth whatever it's provenance. It doesn't need praying over, I'm sure.
      I'm also quite sure that Liberated didn't start this blog so that she could be overwhelmed with nonsensical posts about how the only way to salvation is through embracing this religion, or that religion. In my opinion any organisation that elects a leader by locking a bunch of geriatrics in a room until they decide which particular octogenarian is going to lead them by blowing coloured smoke up the chimney is not worthy of my intellectual consideration. It also strikes me as rather ironic as to how a youth member of one murderous ideology can in later life become the leader of another; and be miraculously elevated to the position of supreme mouthpiece of God, supposedly. Have you thought about that at all? I doubt it.
      May I humbly suggest that you do some research into where Jesus went in the missing years before he took up his mission? OTOH, maybe it's better that you don't know. I don't think you are quite ready for initiation into the mysteries somehow:-)
      As for me being anti intellectual, I only have an IQ of 143 on the Cattel scale which makes me ineligible for MENSA by 5 points, so maybe my peers would disagree with you on that point?
      Now will you stop proselytizing on here? I do believe the rest of us are more interested in what Liberated has to say about islam. A lot of intellectuals are now having to devote their time and effort, which could have been better spent, in combating the scourge of islam and they do not come here to be won over to Christianity or any other mind controlling cult. Now can we move on?

      Delete
    2. You can have an a high IQ but that doesn't mean you know everything.As I told you before if tests shows the Shroud is from the year 7OO or so then it is NOT of Jesus,that's all.

      All I stated is what the scientists have concluded,that's all.You didn't understand my answer your question about Jesus existing,it was simply this:

      It is statistically highly improbable:

      1.Several different movements with very different ideologies,and I think you don't know the ideas of the Ebionites,of paul and of the Gnostics,it seems to me you think they are very similar

      2.Should just create,out of thin air,a mythical character and

      3.Attribute to him historicity.

      THE CASE OF BUDDHA

      It is as if 3 different movements with very,very different beliefs,should have created out of thing air the essentially same historical fiction about Siddarta Gautama,only 1OO years after a man who NEVER LIVED.

      Delete
    3. About the Shroud

      It seems you don't know the details.I always assume not all know what I know and viceversa.It has been demonstrated,and through tests:

      1.That it is NOT a painting.

      2.That there is REAL BLOOD and serum.

      3.That it is the imprint of a real man.

      That there were bad lab results in the dating because sixteenth century cloth had been interwoven with the original.

      The dating was supposed to be to within 3O years precise and instead varied by 2OO years,one lab gave one date,another a different one.The average gave around the year 13OO.

      But if the original is really 1st century and the cloth from the 15OO's is added,and 1 section has say 3O% cloth from the 15OO's and the rest is 1s century,another 7O% cloth from the 15OO's,etc,then of course you are going to get a result that is say,the year 13OO.

      About the Imprint

      Every painting of the crucifixion we have has the nails go through the palms.

      But the shroud has the nails go through the wrists,not the palm.In Greek the word for hand includes the wrist area.The palm area would not support the body of a hanging man.

      Frederick Zugibe,who is the greatest expert on crucifixion,he has conducted tests using humans,who were not hurt,and equipment for scientific measurement,has discovered that if one is pierced in the wrist area....the thumbs automatically bend inwards,it is a physiological reaction.

      Now the shroud shows that the thumbs of the man were bent inwards.In that the shroud is scientifically correct.

      We know from evidence that in 1s century palestine the Jews would wrap the dead in strips of cloth.But the shroud is one big cloth.Some say that would be a reason to reject it as being that of Jesus.

      The detail here is the gospels say the women returned again to anoint the body,that would mean he had not been 1OO% anointed the customary way,his body was put inside in a great hurry.

      So why wrap him in strips of cloth if he had not been properly anointed,just temporarily cover him with a cloth till 3 days later.

      That was why scientists have asked the Vatican for permission to have a new testing.

      Delete
    4. You can have an a high IQ but that doesn't mean you know everything.As I told you before if tests shows the Shroud is from the year 7OO or so then it is NOT of Jesus,that's all.
      ----------------------
      It seems to me that you didn't comprehend, or perhaps read, what I said at all. And what further qualifications do I need to become one of your suppsed intellectuals then?
      -----------------------
      All I stated is what the scientists have concluded,that's all.You didn't understand my answer your question about Jesus existing,it was simply this:

      It is statistically highly improbable:
      ----------------
      I already explained my thoughts on the real Jesus in comparison to your mythical one.
      ----------------------------------

      1.Several different movements with very different ideologies,and I think you don't know the ideas of the Ebionites,of paul and of the Gnostics,it seems to me you think they are very similar
      ------------------------------------
      Why would I care or even be interested?
      2.Should just create,out of thin air,a mythical character and

      3.Attribute to him historicity.

      THE CASE OF BUDDHA

      It is as if 3 different movements with very,very different beliefs,should have created out of thing air the essentially same historical fiction about Siddarta Gautama,only 1OO years after a man who NEVER LIVED.

      Why do you need to further complicate things by bringing Siddhārtha Gautama into things? If you recall this all started because I asked you to stop proselytizing here. I have already gone through what I think of your execrable church and your bits of cloth. God and Jesus have nothing to do with the church, and probably nothing at all to do with the cloth. Next you'll be telling me about the hypothesis that Da Vinci was behind it all I suppose? I've already heard that one. What will you do if the next tests also prove that cloth to be a fake? I realise you are obsessed with being right all of the time.

      Delete
    5. About the Shroud

      It seems you don't know the details.I always assume not all know what I know and viceversa.It has been demonstrated,and through tests:
      -------------BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!
      I don't care one iota for your bloody cloth. You will not find God through it, fake or otherwise.
      Seems to me by the way you carry on that you are having some serious doubts about your beliefs. You answer none of my considered points, you just change tack every time when you find you are barking up a gum tree. God and Jesus have nothing to do with your cult. I want nothing to do with your ridiculous cult. I need no fake relics to worship, It's as simple as that. If I owned the cloth I would burn the darned thing to stop fools like you from making a cult of it.Your ridiculous religion is built on quicksand and I want no part of it, mush as I respect Jesus and Buddha. Neither of them founded a religion. They only tried to point the way to the truth on their own way which was right for the time and the people around at that time. I will never respect your particular brand of idiocy because I have long passed the stage of needing props.Now will you let it lie because you aren't very good at debating in the way intellectuals do it.

      Delete
    6. The way you express yourself is not very mature.I give more details about what you brought up and you say I don't address your points?It precisely to give you evidence that there are valid reasons.

      You said Jesus never existed,I said scholars disagree,I gave a technical reason,then more info specification why,then a hypothetical example using Buddha.And you react immaturely.

      I am not inerested in being right all the time,I am interested in the evidence and where it leads.About the shroud,as I told you before,it could be it is NOT about Jesus,but all the evidence so far is it most probably is for X technical reasons.

      And at best if it is 2,OOO years old, then it would not be proof he resurrected,or Christianity is true,but certainly Jesus existed,in addition to all over evidence.

      Your Skepticism violates Occam's Razor

      I assume you know it,it is:

      "A principle that generally recommends that, from among competing hypotheses, selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions usually provides the correct one, and that the simplest explanation will be the most plausible until evidence is presented to prove it false."

      So your denial of Jesus existing violates that scientific technique.

      LET US DO THE SAME FOR ISLAM

      Using your ideas then you can NOT say Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl Aisha.

      I don't know if you know all the technicalities involved but in essence it is based on hearsay written down by 3 or more Muslim authors 2OO and more years after Muhammad died.

      Using the historical method one can say it most likely true.But not 1OO%.

      Using the Muslim method it is true but the problem is we don't know anything about the six or so generations of transmitters,we only have their word that the transmitters were reliable.That in itself should be enough to say you can't be sure,and reject the story.

      It is even worse for the story Muhammad raped Safiya

      It is based on hearsay.That is why when I argue with Muslims I rarely used those stories,they can apply the same skepticism,and reject it all.

      Are you willing to apply the same skepticism to the negative stories about Muhammad?

      Delete
    7. The way I express yourself is not very mature? Hey, you are the one who can't answer any of my much thought out valid points.

      What I said about Jesus I have made abundantly clear in several of my posts but you chose to ignore every word and still harp on about these bloody scholars in which I have no interest whatsoever, any more than you have in reading posts where I have made abundantly clear my attitude towards the real Jesus versus your mythical Jesus. Are you really as stupid as you would have us believe? I don't give a flying fig for your scientific techniques either because I can plainly see they only apply to you when the evidence is in your favour as can be evinced by your postulating about the veracity of the shroud you are so fond of.
      AS for muhammed, I can quite clearly see with my own eyes what islam is doing to the world thank you very much, and I will use any tool at my disposal to put that evil ideology down, exactly as I would put down the christain church if it were number one on the haters list.
      When are you going to desist from this nonsense and move on? All this rubbish because I had the temerity to ask proselytizers like you to leave Liberated alone. I don't think it is myself who is acting immaturely here. I would much rather be fighting the cult of islam, however I do not give in to the spouters of intolerance and hatred wherever they may come from. You have no real idea of who or what I am, yet you persist with your nonsense like a gramophone record with the needle stuck in a groove. Grow up and stop showing your ignorance and intolerance. Your church has had it's day and we don't need you to save our immortal souls with a bit of cloth or any other nonsense. I will reiterate what I have said too many time already, I respect the real Jesus, for the imaginary Jesus and your church I have absolutely no respect whatsoever.

      Delete
    8. "I respect the real Jesus, for the imaginary Jesus and your church I have absolutely no respect whatsoever."

      Would that be the Jesus you've quoted several times now? You know, the one in the Bible?

      Delete
    9. Most definitely not. Two totally different animals. You know, I don't even have a bible, or want one any more than I want a koran. The Jesus I am talking about was a real person rather than a fantasy figure. you know, the one who didn't start a cult in his own name. Sorry:-)

      Delete
    10. But you have quoted the Jesus of the Bible so how can you say, "Most definitely not"? Which Jesus were you quoting then?

      Delete
    11. Are you really that stupid? "Most definitely not." means exactly what it says. Could it possibly be that I have different sources of information than you? You have a minuscule portion of the truth dressed up in allegories you are unable to decipher. I believe I am closer to the real Jesus than you will ever be. However I will not "cast pearls before swine."

      Delete
  5. Liberated's article reminded me of women in the Western world and it turns out that some 5O women were supreme rulers,they had real power, in Western countries before the 2O century,you can't say THAT about any other culture.

    They ruled Russia,portugal and Brazil,Spain,the Austrian empire,the 3 countries of Scandinavia,all under Queen Margaret,etc.

    It shows that Western culture is superior,really.

    http://www.antisharia.com/2011/08/16/30-or-more-christian-women-as-supreme-rulers-in-europe-before-the-20th-centuryfrom-portugal-to-russiapart-1/

    http://www.antisharia.com/2011/09/11/christian-women-as-supreme-rulers-before-the-20th-centurypart-4/

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  6. Liberated, this is more in response to your previous post. I don't think organized religions have all the answers. I recommend listening to the lectures of Dr. Jordan Peterson. He's a professor of psychology who integrates many disciplines to explain the human experience and our relationship with transcendental reality (which most of us refer to as God). Here's a link to his lectures: http://blip.tv/jordan-b-peterson

    I'd start with "There's No Such Thing as A Dragon" and then go to "Virtue as a Necessity". Then you can start his "Maps of Meaning" series (note that #3 is out of order).

    I think this world would be a much better place if we shed the divisive categorization of religious affiliation and embraced Dr. Peterson's more comprehensive view of the sacred and human.

    Best of luck.

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  7. One day you will meet the man who is your partner through life, who recognizes and respects that independence of thought and action as important tools to admire and cultivate. May you and he find each other, help each other, complete each other, and revel in the joy of having each other as best friends for long, happy years.

    This is my prayer for you, dear one.

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  8. Blogger your mental state is deteriorating! Pull your self together. One step at a time.
    I don't think you have fully got your head around your apostacy and it's implications.
    Once you have determined who you are then do the relationship thing.
    It just sound like you are in a grey area neither here or there!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think you have fully got your head around your apostacy and it's implications.

      Judging from the amount of frothing and screaming you and your co-religionists did here on this blog, it would seem you guys are the ones who can't fathom Shakila's victory and its implications.

      then do the relationship thing.

      At least, she will determine if and when a relationship happens, and it won't be with a mohamedan bully... unlike you two, you deserve each other :D

      It just sound like you are in a grey area neither here or there!

      Being in a gray area is wonderful: (i) there's nobody to tell her she should use an odd number of pebbles to wipe her butt like islam does, (ii) she isn't told that as a woman she is deficient in intelligence as in islam, (iii) she isn't told that residents of hell are mostly women, like islam does, etc... ad nauseam.

      BTW it's "its implications" and not "it's implications". Sheeesh, trust a mohamedan to live in England and not use decent English.

      ps. how about you start answering my questions about islam? Or is your mental state too hopeless for that? :D

      whoosh ...... That's irony kicking anj where the sun don't shine!

      Delete
    2. "ad nauseam" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Cretin!
      tail between your legs time!!!
      Comedy gold!

      Delete
    3. "ad nauseam" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Cretin!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_nauseam

      HAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA who's the cretin now???

      :D :D :D

      whoosh ...... That's irony kicking anj where the sun don't shine!

      Delete
    4. tail between your legs time!!!
      Comedy gold!


      Bend over anj, time to take it in like a pro :D
      Comedy gold!

      :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

      whoosh ...... That's irony kicking anj where the sun don't shine!

      Delete
  9. Blogger your mental state is deteriorating! Pull your self together. One step at a time.
    I don't think you have fully got your head around your apostacy and it's implications.
    Once you have determined who you are then do the relationship thing.
    It just sound like you are in a grey area neither here or there!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think you have fully got your head around your apostacy and it's implications.

      Judging from the amount of frothing and screaming you and your co-religionists did here on this blog, it would seem you guys are the ones who can't fathom Shakila's victory and its implications.

      then do the relationship thing.

      At least, she will determine if and when a relationship happens, and it won't be with a mohamedan bully... unlike you two, you deserve each other :D

      It just sound like you are in a grey area neither here or there!

      Being in a gray area is wonderful: (i) there's nobody to tell her she should use an odd number of pebbles to wipe her butt like islam does, (ii) she isn't told that as a woman she is deficient in intelligence as in islam, (iii) she isn't told that residents of hell are mostly women, like islam does, etc... ad nauseam.

      BTW it's "its implications" and not "it's implications". Sheeesh, trust a mohamedan to live in England and not use decent English.

      ps. how about you start answering my questions about islam? Or is your mental state too hopeless for that? :D

      whoosh ...... That's irony kicking anj where the sun don't shine!

      Delete
    2. "ad nauseam" what's that mean?
      I suggest you worry about your own english!
      Irony really has kicked you this time!
      You're a joke!

      Delete
    3. "ad nauseam" what's that mean?
      I suggest you worry about your own english!


      HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Read and learn its meaning:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_nauseam

      Poor mohamedan, spending so much time with your arse in the air must be filling your empty head.

      Irony really has kicked you this time!
      You're a joke!


      Look in the mirror.

      Can you spell loser? let me guess: i s l a m? :D

      whoosh ...... That's irony kicking anj where the sun don't shine!

      Delete
    4. BTW anj, here's another term you should learn: islamonausea

      To help with your English, here's an example how one uses it:

      When Shakila sees the buffoonery displayed by the two-faced mohamedan, she gets islamonausea.

      See more at:

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/islamonausea-not-islamophobia.html

      Delete
  10. She left islam, so obviously her mental state is only improving.
    And the fact that so far (as a deistic freethinker) she didn't join any loony fantasy-based cults is a clear sign that she is more sane than most people on the planet.

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  11. Liberated writes:

    "I have been accused rather pointedly by several well-wishers on my blog why have I not been married and why didn't my family ever try to get fix me up in an arranged marriage."

    I think the point which Liberated is not fully appreciating is that among non-Muslims who have woken up to the evil injustice of Islam and of the massively evident sickness of Mohammedan society and culture in all its wonderful splendor and diversity, it is difficult to imagine Muslim parents who are (as Liberated has avowed) Islamically very conservative, in a Pakistani milieu no less, who would not simply force their daughter into a marriage, and use physical violence when she resists.

    The apparent fact that this never happened to Liberated, and that on the contrary, her parents have treated her with remarkable laxity and freedom in this regard, considerably belies and dilutes the rather stark picture we all (we all in the still inchoate anti-Islam movement, that is) have of Muslims, Muslim families, and Muslim societies -- and we are not talking about those nice friendly all-American Muslims smiling with their all-American white teeth who are oh-so Westernized, who wear blue jeans, listen to ipods, have girlfriends and/or wives who don't wear veils: we are talking (as Liberated has reminded us more than once) about very conservative Muslims from Pakistan, for Crissakes.

    On top of that (and perfectly harmonious with it), we are to believe that her own parents and brothers might likely kill her if they found out she has apostasized; but that otherwise, they would treat her resistance to the crucially religiously Islamically important institution of marriage upon which pivots the very "honor" of the family -- itself a crucially important component of Islamic society and of the disease of tribalism which infects Muslims -- with a remarkable insouciance not much different from how white American suburban parents might react to their own daughter's stubborn disinclination to "marry and settle down".

    That ol' cognitive dissonance again.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Just to clarify: When I wrote --

    ...it is difficult to imagine Muslim parents who are (as Liberated has avowed) Islamically very conservative, in a Pakistani milieu no less, who would not simply force their daughter into a marriage, and use physical violence when she resists

    -- I am not referring to now, while Liberated is 35, or 5 years ago, when she was 30, or even 10 years ago when she was 25 -- but when she was a little girl, oh say 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, perhaps 14 (the usual age range, we are told, when Muslim females are forced into marriage). So the question is not why don't her parents force her now, while she is 35 with a job and her own apartment in some other city -- but why didn't they force her then, 20 years ago or more, when they had all the power over her that Muslim families have over their girls.

    It just does not compute that Liberated could have been some kind of sassy tomboy out of an American 1950s TV sitcom who "did everything her own way" while her parents just wagged their heads, with her mother saying:

    "Oh, there goes Shakila again, that incorrigibly stubborn little girl -- what are we going to do with her?"

    and her father, as he raises his eyebrows and his hands helplessly, rejoining:

    "What can we do? Shakila will be Shakila, and that's that! Mashallah!"

    In fact, the 1950s sitcom could be called Shakila Will Be Shakila, starring a young Patty Duke as Shakila, Fred MacMurray as her father, Donna Reed as her mother, Ricky Nelson as her older brother, and Shirley Booth as the nutty Christian neighbor who drops in now and then to deliver wisecracks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hesp, you genius! One day Shakila should direct a TV comedy about a girl who apostates from islam, and the stratagems she uses to fool her relatives. They could be called anj, skooti and kai. And the house maid could be [aptly] called slave of allah :D

      I can even imagine an episode where she goes to prayer at the mosque, she is in her burqa but wears nothing but Victoria Secret underneath. :D

      Delete
  13. anj, and read this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46187660/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

    An afghan man killed his wife because she gave birth to a daughter; he wanted a son instead.

    I'm sure you're glad Shakila is safe from such mohamedan cultural monstrosity now aren't you?

    ReplyDelete
  14. testing … testing …. I hope I finely could post … I had a hard time registering

    ReplyDelete
  15. Shakila,

    I would also encourage you to marry for love. Further, I would pray you don't give up hope for an eternal companion, someone who will love, respect and cherish you, even as you discover you can love, respect and cherish him. It is not good for men or women to live solitary lives. God never intended such, but has taught us that there is neither man without the woman, nor woman without the man in his eyes. Families built of loving and nurturing relationships can be eternal. They are key to happiness. Please, don't give up. Somewhere, out there, there is someone for you. Someone who will make all the trials and hardships of life just a little easier to bear; someone to lean on, to confide with, and to build shared dreams with. God bless you that you find each other and find true happiness together.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ehh?

      QD, if you're someone who believes the Bible, I have a few verses for you:

      Matthew 19:10-12.
      Jesus' disciples then said to him, "If this is the case, it is better not to marry!" "Not everyone can accept this statement," Jesus said. "Only those whom God helps. Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by others, and some choose not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."

      Delete
    2. TTFJ,

      You lost me with that quote. What a reference about adultery and not divorcing has to do with marriage being wrong??? Isn't Mark 10:2-12 a much clearer explanation? What about Gen. 2:24, one of God's first instructions to men was to marry? Or 1 Cor. 11:11 - "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the eyes of the Lord."

      This life is a proving ground for faith and school for loving and getting along with our brothers and sisters; what better and more rewarding relationship than the blessed bond of marriage between equal and loving partners approved of God?

      Delete
    3. In Matthew 19:10-12, Jesus mentions that some people can't marry and others choose not to marry and God does help them accomplish that.

      I offered those verses because, regarding someone being single, you said: God never intended such, but has taught us that there is neither man without the woman, nor woman without the man...

      That's all I was trying to say. I never said marriage was wrong. Those are your words above.

      (In the interest of full disclosure, I am off the market, and wonderfully so! :-)

      Delete
    4. OK, got'cha. :) God bless you and your loving spouse.

      Delete
  16. There's a reason for everything that happens. Just think of it as God watching out for you in preventing you from being married to a Muslim in the past. Now the ball is in your court. Do not foul up what God has done for you by marrying the wrong man. Now that you know better, it is your responsibility.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hello Liberated One,

    First of all, take a bow woman!!!

    Secondly, after going through the comments in your previous post, dunno why, but I got the impression that people are marketing their respective religions and Gods to you, like salesmen do.

    A Muslim says Islam is the perfect religion, Muhammad is the perfect role-model, Allah is the only God and everything else is satanic lie which would lead you to eternal damnation!!

    A Jew says Jehovah is the only God and none else deserves worship.

    A Christian says that Jesus is the one true way to heaven and all others would be damned.

    A Vaishnava says that Vishnu/Krishna is the Supreme Godhead and all other religions are deluded.

    A Shaiva says Shiva is the Paramatman, and the only way to salvation, and all others are his subordinate..


    Now all these people have got a supposely divine text to back their claims and each of them, for some reason, believe that only their text is veracious (and adherence to which would take you to heaven) and others are man-made (and hence unworthy of being followed)!! Everyone is ever ready to point out flaws in other religion but they can never digest the idea that their own religion too might have certain flaws..

    They ask you to believe in this fellow or that fellow to reach heaven. I ask you to believe in yourself first and please stop worrying about heaven and hell. Your greed to reach heaven and your fear of being damned to hell by these all-merciful gods, would once again make you a prisoner. May be this time your prison would be made of silver or gold and perhaps would be a bit more breathable but certainly you would cease to be the Liberated One. No heaven can lure you if you don't desire it and no hell can torment you if you don't fear it. Believe what you find believable after thorough observation and analysis and not because it promises you to take you to heaven or threatens you of hellfire. Do only that which you find is righteous and not in greed of paradise or in fear of "divine wrath". Act for the sake of action and not consequences. Don't be a blind follower. A follower can never be free. He is always dependent on the one he follows. Be an EXPLORER and find your own ways.

    If there is indeed a God, then surely He/She/It would know that you are a good human who intends no harm to anyone and I see no reason why should that God punish you!! But if God doles out rewards only to those who worships and sings His/Her glories and throws the rest to hell, I think such a narcissist God is unworthy of any reverence. If God is indeed omnipresent then God must be within you too. So believe in yourself and be Free!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I Am That I Am
      Excellent post. I have been trying to suggest the same thing. There are far too many christers on here who think they have the absolute right to post reams and reams of biblical quotations and links to sacred music in order to convince poor old Liberated that she needs to be a christer to save her soul. The only one I suggest you need to listen to is that small voice heard when you go into the silence. There is no jealous God, no hell fire unless you choose to make it for yourself. No props and no party tricks are needed. God gave us all freewill and our paths are not preordained. If God was on one side, as so many of these sick cultists seem to believe, then why on earth wouldn't she/he or it have disposed of the non believers and just kept the believers in the first place. God isn't chopping little boy's heads off in Thailand and blowing up bus loads of women and children in Iraq. Men are doing it in the name of their false god as the christers did also until comparatively recently. God isn't responsible; men are. I myself am an eclectic Pagan, I need no idols, no books and no gurus. I carry everything I need around with me in my eternal quest for the truth. It's that simple. However, I know exactly what those Gods and gurus are because of my slight knowledge of metaphysics, and I steer well clear of such beings because I know they only have the power and the attributes imbued upon them by the fools who give it to them. Also Jungs theory of the collective unconscious is a reality to those who know. Hence the need for muslims to kill and maim innocent people because they are in thrall to the group unconscious which has been deliberately nurtured over the last 1400 years by evil and cunning men. The simplest way to deal with cults is to prevent their teaching in schools while children are at an impressionable age. I also say find your own way, if it seems right it is probably right for you. The more you seek for the truth, the more coincidences will happen that lead you on the right path for your spiritual evolution. That's a metaphysical law, seek and ye will find.

      Delete
  18. " but more often than not, the man always ran away in the opposite direction after just one meeting or conversation with me. "

    One can only wonder why, LOL :)

    probably saw you for the spastic you are, hahahahaha

    Jesus......is this BITCH still active ??? thought spencer would be bored by now but just goes to show how these islam haters have no LIFE whatsoever!!!

    ReplyDelete
  19. SKOOTI!!! :-)))))))))

    It's you!!! I knew my nose couldn't be wrong!!!

    ReplyDelete
  20. !!! ANGRY CHIMP ALERT !!!

    Attention bloggers. Watch out for chimp throwing faeces!

    Skooti, down boy down...

    ReplyDelete
  21. Thanx for dropping by kooti, this afternoon is going to be fun with you around :D

    ReplyDelete
  22. ah CHI CHI BWOY.........the FCUKWIT WHO HAS NO LIFE....., U still here suckin spencer's cock, hahahahaha

    chi chi bwoy says, "ooohhh shakila.....i want u......" hehehehehehe

    man toooo funnnyyyyy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Still obsessed with boys and homosexuality hey kooti? Don't worry allah will give you boys in islamic paradise: surah 52:24 Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.

      Delete
  23. islamic joke of the week:

    Q: Why did the Catholic Priest recite the shahada?
    A: He read in the quran that allah was serving boys to muslim men in paradise!

    ReplyDelete
  24. CHI CHI BWOY STILL OBESSESSED WITH HIS CATHOLIC PRIESTS :)

    CHI CHI BWOY STILL PINING AFTER SHAKILA.....DON'T KNOW WHO TO FEEL SORRY FOR WITH THAT ONE!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm so glad you keep coming here and can't ignore me :-)))))

      Why did allah save Jesus from death but let mohamad die like a poisoned rat?

      Come on intrepid mujahid, defend your awesome, holy, noble, well-endowed, unadulterated, infallible quran!

      :D :D :D :D

      Delete
    2. By the way monkey boy, what's "OBESSESSED" ??

      Typical mohamedan... lives in England and can't master English :D

      Delete
    3. That's because their imans tell them they mustn't listen to the filthy kuffur teachers.

      Delete
  25. AM TOO BUSY ROBBING YOU BLIND CHI CHI BWOY...IS GREAT FUN :)

    CHILL CHI CHI BWOY......STOOPID FCUKWIT DOESN'T REALISE HE IS ONLY AN INTERNET TROLL, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Come on intrepid mohamedan, why did allah save Jesus from death but let mohamed die like a poisoned rat?

      no answer?

      kot kot kot...

      Delete
  26. CALM DOWN CHI CHI BWOY....ON A SERIOUS NOTE.....PAY ATTN CHI CHI BWOY

    IS THIS FAKE MURTAD A VIRGIN......HAS ANYONE "SMASHED" IT (ALA RICHARD KEYS, LOL).....LORDY IMAGINE THE POOR MOFO HAVING TO GET HIS LEG OVER THAT......CHI CHI BWOY GETTING ALL EXCITED NOW, BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Down monkey down... put down your feces now.

      :D

      Hehe come on admit it, nobody irritates you like I do hey? :D

      Delete
  27. Skooti says: AM TOO BUSY ROBBING YOU BLIND CHI CHI BWOY...IS GREAT FUN :)

    Spoken like a true muslim :D

    Hehe how appropriate! A muslim using the word "robbing" !!! :D

    ReplyDelete
  28. MORE HILARITY......Y'ALL HEARD OF ALI SINA RIGHT......ANOTHER WASTE GUY WHO HATES ISLAM. WHAT IS IT WITH THESE LOSERS.....THEY LEAVE ISLAM BUT CAN'T STOP TALKING ABOUT ISLAM???? HOW SAD :)

    WELL THIS TURD RATES HIMSELF SOOOOO HIGHLY HE IS TRYING TO SELL HIS BOOK FOR $999.99......CHECK IT OUT

    http://bit.ly/xG5wNY

    SO ANY OF YOU ISLAM HATING TURDS BUYING THIS POSs RAMBLINGS??? DIDN'T THINK SO :)

    THE POOR HAPLESS SINA HURRIED AND CHANGED THE PRICE. NOT AS IF HIS BOOKS ARE SELLING LIKE HOT CAKES, HEHEHEHEHEHE!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Skooti, you're still here! :-))))))))))))))

      Yes I am interested in islam!! I would definitely follow mohamad if he is greater than Jesus!!! I would love to embrace islam, I just need your help!

      So tell me, why did allah save Jesus from death but let mohamad die like a poisoned rat?

      Delete
    2. Skooti, here is the quranic reference:

      surah an-nisa 4:157-158. And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

      Help me understand the glorious quran oh you pure muslim, I am so ready to convert to islam right now!

      Delete
  29. Christians contradict themselves
    colonized africa and used the "curse of Ham" to justify their racist, cruel colonization of Africa

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Slave of allah! Thanx for being here, I was asking skooti to help me learn the noble quran but he seems to have gone AWOL when he read my question. I am interested in islam, I would definitely follow mohamad if he is greater than Jesus!

      My question is: why did allah save Jesus from death but he let mohamad die like a poisoned rat?

      Here is the surah:

      surah an-nisa 4:157-158. And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

      Help me understand the glorious quran, I am so ready to keel over and proclaim there is no god but allah and mohamad is his prophet!

      Delete
    2. My question is: why did allah save Jesus from death but he let mohamad die like a poisoned rat?

      Because allah was mohammed's sock puppet. When muhammed died, so did allah.

      Delete
  30. shakila

    Hello again …

    reading posts here makes me think you have been targeted to get enrolled in a new school ...oh I mean … new religion …

    What is happening here … cant a women breath or take a rest from some kind religion for a while …before she is hounded to go to the next ….it is like divorce as soon a women gets a divorce other women try to get her hitched the next day.

    Personally ….Islam to me …only , was made by men for the benefit of men to have unlimited supply of women, money and power . … and other religions were created for similar reasons with less cruelty and distraction …. but I know they are all man made … the God that I know IT should be … it is not described in any religion books … it sets in our hearts and brain …..God that deserves to be loved is not the God of all religions that I have read about since I left Islam … it is different and
    … it is true we do not know weather God is out there … but is it not less lonely when we hope there is a guard who listening to our hushed words … I might be a dreamer … but it is a nice dream.

    I read you Article and I agree and I am happy that you have not made up your mind yet … take your time and think about it .. the more you think about it the clearer it get in your eyes.

    I like to tell you that …*marriages are over rated* …. :-D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's because you did not marry for LOVE, fineliving56.

      Delete
  31. Shakila,

    It looks like a couple of our correspondents have gone off onto a tangent, taunting and insulting each other like a couple of immature school boys. Shame on them.

    Fineliving56,

    Your post has a tone of sadness and disappointment. I'm sorry for you, if you can accept my consolation. Men (and women) can be both angels and devils by turns. We all hope our better natures will rise to rule us and make us the leaders, heroes, and lovers that our hearts imagine, but all too frequently we never arrive there. Marriage has its many rough moments, but if it is composed of equal and loving partners that share a common dream and understanding of the meaning of life, those difficulties can be surmounted and in the process the relationship strengthened. Although, I've witnessed many broken and damaged people, those who've seen their hearts bruised and broken by the ones they've loved and trusted (honestly, I'm guilty of the same in at least one case); I've seen as many or more that have worked out. Love affairs that never end, that see companions that can't imagine live without one another, or that look forward to reuniting on the other side of the veil (death) when their time in mortality is over. I do hope, even in middle age (I presume) you might yet find that special someone to share life with. NEVER give up hope!

    I also hear the longing in you voice, to know the true God. I have felt it too. I have found him in my own heart and mind, but each of us must make that search on our own. God truly is the rewarded of those that diligent search for him. I found him as I studied the Restored Gospel, as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but each of us must seek and find him within our own conscience, our own understanding and experience. May that god that I know exists manifest himself unto you and comfort your heart, I pray.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It looks like a couple of our correspondents have gone off onto a tangent, taunting and insulting each other like a couple of immature school boys. Shame on them.

      Not quite the full story my friend.
      This all started because I suggested that perhaps it might be a good idea if certain individuals were to stop trying to proselytize on here, consequently three of them launched into an ad hominen attack upon me. Only one seemingly childish inndividual persisted with his nonsense at least until yesterday. (See the ridiculous and badly worded poem mocking my first post about marriage.) Now it seems you are also proselytizing. Why is it that people who think they have found religion must force it down other people's throats? Islam is the worst but Christainity comes a close second IMO. What is it about human nature that people think they are entitled to ram their particular religion down other people's throats, or main and torture them for the sake of their souls? There is no jealous God and there are no penalties outside of human existence for being in the wrong cult, the only punishment is that which your own mind imposes upon you. Perhaps the real answer to the conundrum is that, indeed, misery likes company? And Jesus wasn't a christain.

      Delete
    2. Stephen,

      I won't speak to the motives of Muslims or any other faith group. I can only speak as a Christian. There are two main reasons I share my faith, not intending to ram it down anyone's throat, but to invite and share. The first is commonly called the "Great Commission"; that having been warned ourselves, we should warn others. The second, and the most important, is having discovered a source of peace, contentment, and happiness in our (my) own lives; we want to share that joy with everyone else.

      There is a great conundrum attached to this that many have recognized. When someone does harm to others under the sincere conviction that they are doing them good (or doing it for their own good), they have no twinges of conscience to put doubt in their hearts, or brakes on their actions. That is why some of the worst things done by men have been done for good reasons ("The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"). However, the fear of doing harm should never silence us from sharing what has brought us joy. We should only remember to never force others to our path.

      In my church there is a hymn, "Know This, That Every Soul Is Free", that says a lot about our opinion on obedience.

      Know this, that every soul is free to choose his life and what he'll be; For this eternal truth is giv'n: That God will force no man to heav'n.
      He'll call, persuade, direct aright, And bless with wisdom, love, and light, In nameless ways be good and kind, But never force the human mind.

      It goes on, but that's enough to make my point. I also quote our eleventh "Article of Faith": We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

      Now, you are free to believe what you may, but allow those of us who do believe in a loving and active god to follow our own consciences too.

      Delete
    3. Quiet_Dave
      At least your tone is different from the last three idiots. I do not myself believe in any form of proletarianization. The Christain centuries were not pleasant ones as nobody can deny, however the church has been forced kicking and screaming into the modern age even though we still have a locked room full of geriatrics in skirts who have to blow the right coloured smoke up a chimney to know whom their God has appointed as his voice. While I have nothing but the highest regard for Jesus, the church which misappropriated his name another matter entirely.
      If you must proselytize I don't feel that this is the place to do it.
      There is no need of prosetylisation from where I stand because the knowledge you have gained will eventually lead you to seek out that which is hidden, and then only at the point you are ready and able to use it. Isn't it ironic that chrstainity and islam have tried to destroy a far older belief in the creator which doesn't proselytise, and yet it's still here? Has anyone ever heard of the Pagan inquisition for instance?
      You say we are free to believe what we may, but it's been a long time coming, against the wishes of the popes and inquisitors. I say let people look into their own hearts and minds because it's the only place they will find the truth. Books of religion are solely to control the masses by imposing a set of rules and promising dire punishments if those rules aren't slavishly obeyed.
      Also as a person with maybe a tad more knowledge than the average person, I also understand the concept of group consciousness which is what makes primitive and deluded people follow the herd. This is why we see a lot of muslims constantly killing and burning churches, because they can't break free of th herd instinct. When one reaches a certain point in their spiritual growth the need is no longer there. You can see the instinct I am referring to in any flock of birds when they all take off or wheel in the air at the same time. Anyway, to get back, I imagine that the Liberated one has reached that point in her spiritual journey where she can see islam for what it is?
      I recently met a couple of 18 year old mormon proselytisers, so called elders, with badges to prove it, in my town. They were so knowledgeable and wanted to save my soul for their saviour. I was dumbfounded when I told them I didn't need their religion and one of them asked me what I was. His reply to my answer was: "What's a Pagan?" I somehow suspect he wasn't going to do too well in his act of proselytisation. Do we need people lie this trying to save our eternal souls? I think not.
      Do what thou wilt. and that ye harm no-one.

      Delete
    4. Stephen,

      I must politely disagree about this forum as an inappropriate place to proselytize. Shakila, is presently voicing her rootlessness and the loss of her foundations when she rejected that which framed her morals and worldview for so long. She has expressly said she is searching for answers and new bearings for her life. It is exactly now, when in gentle kindness, one ought to offer their views and understandings for her perusal and examination. Not, forcing it upon her, but spreading it before her like a banquet and inviting her to partake. The same as I would offer you, but not to the point of forcing anything. Just making it available.

      On an entirely different note. Although the Abrahamic faiths have had their bad moments (and I especially condemn Islam for its lack of compassion and tolerance of divergent opinions) they have overall been great forces for good in the world. It is those faiths, especially Christian and Jewish, that have rallied to drive slavery out of the world as much as it has been to date. It has been the Christian faith that has been the inspiration behind the rise of many hospitals, orphanages, schools, and other charitable organizations. It has been the Judeo-Christian faith that has pushed for many to be recognized as equals before God and human judges, and have developed and protected the concept of freedom of conscience. It hasn't all been inquisitions and crusades.

      And, I feel, you may see paganism through tinted glasses. It was pagan worshipers of Moloch, that were condemned in the OT for offering their children as burnt sacrifices. It was pagan Incas or their forefathers that ritually killed and left men, women, and children on peaks of the Andes and in the deserts of Chile. It was pagan Aztecs that slaughter dozens daily in the temples of Tenochtitlan, and across Europe, grim reminders of other such sacrifices by pagans have been found mummified in ancient bogs. Today's pagans forget the darkness and superstition that were their ancient heritage and embrace a sanitized image remembered from a semi-forgotten "Golden Age" (I'm sure the Germans have a fancy word for it:)). Although, you obviously do not lean the slightest towards such extremes, I'm only pointing out that paganism has no unchallengeable moral superiority over Christianity when closely examined.

      Still, we are all free to choose what we will accept and reject, and I am in total agreement with your closing statement: "Do what thou wilt, and that ye harm no-one."

      Delete
    5. I must politely disagree. Shakila needs to find her own answers and not have anything imposed upon her qeusting mind while she is still in a vulnerable state after realising the truth about the religion she had foisted upon her from birth. It is only by patient self examination that the answers will be found. There is plenty of information freely available without anyone giving the poor lady the good news as they see it. Perhaps Shakila herself might comment upon the matter, after all it is her blog?

      I put it to you that all this would have happened without the Abrahamic faiths, humanity will progress with or without religion. In fact we would probably have made speedier progress without the catholic church trying to hold back the tide IMO. Now we have the unfortunate situation where the christain leaders are paper tigers and do nothing much but pander to the whims of islamic evil. The archbishop of Canterbury here actually sspoke up for the imposition of shariah law in the UK. Where are the voices calling for an end to the killing and enslavement of christains and other religious communities all over the world by muslims right now? I hear nothing.

      No, I do not see Paganism through rose tinted spectacles, I am an eclectic Pagan. I do not worship those Gods which were created by men because I perhaps know a little more about that subject than the average person. Also you are using a far too broad canvas with the word Paganism in the same way that you say Abrahamic faiths. They aren't Pagans in my sense of the word. The Pagans I associate with were the master masons who built your cathedrals, the people with the hidden knowledge, the people such as Hypathia, the last custodian of the Alexandrian library. These people weren't concerned with human sacrifices or the propaganda put about by christain zealots to blacken the name of Paganism. Look at the hatchet job they tried to do to the Druids for instance with their nonsense about wicker men and such. I do know about the willing sacrifices of Pagan monarchs for the good of the people however. There are certain subjects I may not talk of unfortunately. No system of beliefs can account for those who misuse those beliefs for their own selfish ends. That's why the real knowledge was kept from the general populace until individuals reached the point where they were sufficiently advanced to become acolytes in search of the hidden knowledge. The world still isn't ready for what the ancients knew. Take the 200 pound cut stone blocks in ancient buildings all over the world for instance, we still have no way of moving those blocks, let alone raising them up hundreds of feet in the air. I digress. What I am saying is that I am not one of the people you think of as Pagans, I am one of the other kind who would have benefitted from visiting the Alexandrian library and the ancient mystery schools which were closed to prevent knowledge falling into he hands of evildoers. I do not condone any ritual sacrifice, then or now, but I do know why they took place, not by my people I hasten to add. I claim no moral superiority over christainity. I am just one who seeks the truth. However I do have an inbuilt dislike of the catholic church I will freely admit, but then so would you if they had tortured and killed you and you had recall of it.
      ---------------------------------------------
      Still, we are all free to choose what we will accept and reject, and I am in total agreement with your closing statement: "Do what thou wilt, and that ye harm no-one."
      ---------------------------------------------------
      Thank you for that. I respect your beliefs as I believe you respect mine, unlike some others of your faith here.

      Delete
  32. ONCE AGAIN I WILL ASK
    Christians contradict themselves
    colonized africa and used the "curse of Ham" to justify their racist, cruel colonization of Africa
    I see you Jesus worshippers cannot answer

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And I am willing to abandon those imperfect Christians and run towards islam if you can prove mohamad is greater!

      So, why did allah save Jesus from death and took Him up to Heaven but he let mohamad die like a poisoned rat? Again here is the surah:

      surah an-nisa 4:157-158. And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

      Help me come to islam!! I am so ready to proclaim there is no god but allah and mohamad is his prophet!

      Delete
    2. By the way slave of allah, I didn't see any question.

      Did anybody else on this blog see slave of allah's post as a question? Anybody? here is his original post:

      Slave of Allah Jan 31, 2012 02:54 PM

      Christians contradict themselves
      colonized africa and used the "curse of Ham" to justify their racist, cruel colonization of Africa


      Does anybody see a question in the above?

      Delete
  33. "*marriages are over rated*"

    WHO WOULD WANT TO MARRY THE FAKE MOORTARDO ?

    LETS COMPILE A LIST OF WANNABE SUITORS AMONGST THESE ISLAM HATING TURDS :)

    1. CHI CHI BWOY (OUT OF TOTAL DESPERATION)
    2. HESPERADO (IF YOU CAN STAND HIS CONSTANT SPAZ ATTACKS!!!)

    NOT A GREAT CHOICE IS IT. MIND YOU THE MOORTARDO IS HITTING 40 YEARS OLD, HASN'T BEEN "SMASHED" (ALA RICHARD KEYS), SHE MUST BE "BUTTERS" :) :) :)

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    1. Skooti! :-)))))))) salam alaikum!!! Your stench precedes your entrance! ;-)

      Hey please help me come to islam!!! Surely mohamad is greater that Jesus; but why did allah save Jesus from death and raised Him up to Heaven but he let mohamad die like a poisoned rat? Here is what the quran says:

      surah an-nisa 4:157-158. And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

      Delete
  34. AH CHI CHI BWOY.....STILL TRYING AND FAILING TO WOOO THE FAKE MOORTARDO "OOOOHHH SHAKILA", ......I KNOW ITS TUFF ON YA, NOT EVEN GETTING A LOOK IN.....CHIN UP SUNSHINE, ROLFMAO!!!!

    P.S. YOU RECKON THE MOORTARDO HAS LOST HER CHERRY ?

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    1. Come on kooti, help me find islam! Why did allah let mohamad die like a poisoned rat but the quran says allah saved Jesus and raised Him up to allah when people were trying to crucify Him?

      I am so attracted to islam and surely islam is the truth, so, help a truth seeker here!

      Delete
  35. CGW
    Hi … are you the same CGW from JW ? if yes … nice to see you here.

    You are right on that, but some times, love is not enough, .. I think people mix infatuation with love and after marriage that becomes a lot clearer and they were in love . I have friends who married for love and love just fizzled in few years and the marriage ended … but That does not mean all of them end like that …… I know a women [ non Muslim , of course] who tells me, her and her husband are the best friends and they still hold hands after over 20 years of marriage.

    I just wanted to have a joke on the expense of marriages with Liberated ….

    We ex Muslim have shared feeling toward many aspect of life …. Islamic Marriages is one of them we marry because we have to …. there is no choice … it is just we are damed if we do and damed if we don't .

    Islamic Marriages, have gone through positive changes in the last 10 years … but arranged marriages still happen all the time.

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    1. Yes, I'm the same CGW. Nice to see you as well!

      I married for LOVE and have been blissfully married for 30+ years. My parents were married for 50+ years before my father died; my in-laws were married for 60+ years before my father-in-law died and even toward the end, he and his wife would hold hands, look into each others eyes and giggle like teenagers. So it IS possible, and I'll tell you what - during the rough times, which ALWAYS happen, it's much easier to remember the LOVE and keep it together. It makes it all worthwhile.

      TRUE MARRIAGE - based on the communion of souls, found only through LOVE - is vastly UNDER-rated.

      Just FYI, you might look into Christian marriage concepts and see how they differ from islamic ones. When children are taught from a young age that LOVE and KINDNESS are the keys, they tend to make better relationship-partners.

      Delete
  36. Why not simply ban people who are here for personal insults on either side?

    I've seen plenty of Muslims who can discuss things politely without recourse to personal insults. Shouldn't someone be able to just delete disgusting attacks talking about stuff like the loss of "cherries"?

    I can't imagine treating anyone the way some people here are treating Shakila. If she were an ex-Christian who now hated my religion, my heart would be full of compassion for her.

    I can imagine a Muslim feeling that she was doing something evil in leaving Islam. What I CANNOT imagine is a seriously religious Muslim using that as an excuse to make horrible personal insults and speculation about her intimate life.

    Is this an advertisement for the true faith? Become a Muslim and learn to treat people who "go astray" like this?

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    1. Jeff says: Why not simply ban people who are here for personal insults on either side?

      CGW, wipe that smirk off your face! ;-)

      Delete
  37. Here's one just for the trolls, although I'm certain that the dare not read it:

    http://www.examiner.com/law-enforcement-in-national/afghan-pedophilia-a-way-of-life-say-u-s-soldiers-and-journalists?CID=examiner_alerts_article

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    1. I'm not going to follow the link but I wouldn't mind betting it has something to do with the abominable practice of bacha bazi?

      Delete
  38. As to marriage, men and women, I don't know whether my story will be of any value, but I'll let the readers judge.

    VERY few, if any, co-workers would ever have thought me shy and introverted and for good reason: the perfection of my work was my integrity and I pursued my understanding of truth (doing things right and speaking out against all forms (in the workplace, in the agency) of doing things wrong, whether technical or personnel issues.

    I worked in IT for 38 years.

    But as to relations with the complimentary sex (aren't we really intended to be compliments one to another - even in simple friendships?), I was pretty much paralyzed. Combine that with loneliness, and one has a small disaster.

    Somewhere in my mid-20's (I became a Christian before I turned 22 and took my God and His Word VERY seriously), I finally faced a crucial question: What was *I* going to give to the hypothetical woman who would end my loneliness and give me joy? Whoops.

    So, thereafter, I asked God to bring me someone *I* would benefit as much as she would benefit me. Better a small step than NO step in understanding.

    In my LATE 20's, I finally told God "I give up! I won't look anymore! If anything is going to happen in that area, YOU'LL have to do it!"

    Shortly after that he brought someone into my life at work who wanted nothing to do with me or anyone else. It was my job to TRAIN her. It wasn't easy on either of us. BUT it was at a time in her life when she wanted to learn about the Bible - and I had equipped myself to be well able to give her some guidance where she could decide which bible she wanted to read and sufficient background so she could study on her own.

    Twelve years later (very long story, too, of course), we were married. We became friends first.

    For Christians my recommendation is to do as I did: simply give it completely to God. I really wasn't ready for marriage even at age 41, though I wonder how many of us are ever really "ready". Like the rest of life, it's a learning process - and MEN need to realize THEY must submit, too!

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    1. By the way, we're approaching our 22nd anniversary - and still learning. She is my closest friend and has been all our marriage.

      Delete
  39. Paul

    What a wonderful story of two people who found each and stayed together in thick and thin ….

    Although I do not believe there is an entity [ God ] who is involved in directing people to each other …to me it does not make any sense …. If this Entity is watching and it IT [ I do not think we should call God HE …no one know God's gender … so I call God ..IT] has the ability to be with each one of us with the problem to find our A mate, don't you think that God has far more important thinks then to help with that … like... somehow saving the Christian who are being killed in their churches every day by the merciful people of Muhammad … what about burning down the houses that Christian built to worship IT …what about growing some plants to eat for the Somalian how are facing famine ….where children could be seen, dead, face down on the ground from sheer hunger every day …
    Christian and all religious people of all kind, tell me …but, God did this because we are committing sin every day and that is our punishment and if we stop all the sin God will help us in all these things …this conditional love from THE god does not make any sense …God love should unconditional …. do not get me wrong I do think… mostly hope ... there is entity [ God] thats created us … but I do not think IT can change any thing about our lives.

    I am sorry to say all that after a very up lifting story … but I just wanted to express my take on this subject.

    peace

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    1. I'm glad you found value in some of the story.

      I was (reluctantly) raised Lutheran and rejected it by age 13.

      I read Ayn Rand beginning at 15 and declared myself an atheist shortly thereafter.

      C. S. Lewis' Mere Christianity convinced me rationally that God -is- thanks in part to Rand introducing me formally to the concept of absolute truth and other events led me to consider and then experimentally seek after God.

      You needn't apologize for stating your views. I'm glad we both have that opportunity. Perhaps we ALWAYS have the opportunity, but there are times and places where we must face consequences for doing so!

      I will say this: if God were not truly KNOWABLE and if I were unable to experience knowing Him personally I would NOT be a Christian.

      I'm not concerned about what is done in the name of religions or in the name of anything else - all humans are flawed and will corrupt anything and everything (and every system) they create or touch.

      It's called Original Sin.

      But I DO suggest that Christians and non-Christians alike look at THREE things as a starting point regarding God, Himself:

      1) the bible's teaching "God is love"
      2) the two great commandments Jesus cites in Matthew
      3) humans' absolute free will (contrary to much of popular Christian teaching)

      We LIVE in the midst of MANY miracles - and fail to see them daily.

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    2. Oh, and don't GIVE UP once you start.

      God does say in the bible if we seek Him WITH ALL OUR HEART we will find Him.

      I would guess he's not really interested in looky-loos.

      It appears that HIS first question of US is: Are you SURE?

      If God is the God of the bible, then we're talking about something many orders of magnitude beyond anything we can conceive... and yet He WANTS us to MEET Him.

      Try that on the CEO of some corporation someday or on any number of people 'in high places' here on earth.

      For that matter, see how it flies with the Muslim understanding of Allah (or for that matter, with the hierarchy of most "Christian" churches who seem to believe we require intermediaries!).

      Delete
    3. "Brother Andrew", was he the one from OM?

      Delete
    4. The creator gave us the gift of freewill, It is not the creator committing atrocites but rather men doing it in the manes of their false Gods and prophets.

      Delete
  40. "I can't imagine treating anyone the way some people here are treating Shakila."

    AMAZES ME HOW DUMB THESE ISLAM HATERS ARE.....WELL ACTUALLY IT DOESN'T :) THEY THINK THIS FAKE MOORTARDO IS ACTUALLY REAL!?!?!?!

    JUST TO PUT YOU OUT OF YOUR MISERY......THIS BLOGGER IS A CREATION OF SPENCER......READ THE "MO"

    ANYWAY BACK TO THE CENTRAL ISSUE.....WHO WOULD WANT TO MARRY A HATER LIKE SHAKILA.....GAWD FORBID SHE EVER GAVE BIRTH TO ANYTHING......CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT....THE SPROG WOULD BE A HATER JUST LIKE HER :)

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    1. And you're a creature in thrall to an amoral monster who died 1400 years ago.

      Delete
    2. Skouti apparently thinks that if he types in all caps, his incoherent ramblings will be more convincing. Retarded mustard.

      Fail !

      Delete
    3. Even if by some slender chance Shakila was the invention of Robert Spencer, which I'm sure she is not, most people on here have still benefited from a sensible discourse upon the nature of the number one evil confronting the free world today. I doubt it but even you might think and realise one day that there is a better world away from your mind controlling death cult, scuttle?

      Delete
    4. I noticed this and wrote at length about it on my own blog in an essay (No publicity is bad publicity) about Liberated One's blog.

      One of the main reasons Liberated routinely gets over 100 comments per blog essay (and she only began blogging about two months ago!) is because of the controversy that was generated about her identity and reality. The other reason is, of course, that Robert Spencer adverts to her blog on his very popular website, Jihad Watch, every time she writes a new essay.

      On my blog, I'm lucky if I get 3 comments every ten essays (often spanning a month). Otherwise, on my blog, one hears only the desert wind whistling and sees only an occasional tumbleweed rolling by. Many other blogs I have visited rarely get over 50, let alone 100 comments. The much more well-known blog Gates of Vienna usually peaks at about 10 or 15, only rarely getting up into the 20s or 30s when some controversial issue gets heated up. Very rarely, it gets up to the numbers which, for Liberated, seem to have become the unremarkable norm.

      Delete
  41. Skouti,

    Have you ever heard the express about the kettle calling the pot black?

    ReplyDelete
  42. Move to netherlands bro:

    http://www.answeringabraham.com/2012/02/dutch-cabinet-passes-ban-on-burqas.html

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  43. Turn off the Caps Lock, please.

    Liberated, good luck on your personal search for meaning.

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  44. My daughter has always tried to figure out how one would know a man would be a good husband. At first we figured it would be the way he treated his mother. But then we really got it right and it is in fact the way his dad treats his mom. That is what he has learned and that is what he will do; unless of course he is very enlightened and has pondered deeply and seen for himself that his dad was wrong. Hope this helps in making your decision - Blessings and keep on truckin' sister - Rene

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